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India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

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Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#231

Post by Shangrila304 »

As someone who recently moved from USA To India this is the best thing that is happening to India.

Coupled with racist immigration laws in USA this is helping smaller companies like mine to attract far superior talent. I was engineer number 1 in a Machine Learning division of an American company. I negotiated with my employer that I will move the whole division to India, hire in India at American salaries and deliver results.

Since then our ML division is running pretty smoothly and I am able to poach the brightest kids on the block.

The imminent collapse of India's outsourcing industry will be good for India's homegrown tech sector as brighter kids will move to work on tougher and more India specific problems.

With falling birth rates in developed countries and racially charged environment I think the future of tech will be determined by China and partly India and not in silicon valley.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#232

Post by qaq »

shrewduser wrote: post #216
qaq wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Ukraine it can not be inflated by definition as there is basically 0 vc money. The companies are profitable and are paying market rates.

isn't a lot of the outsourcing connected to western markets and that very VC money? i think it's all connected you'll find.

I'd say very little of that work is for startups it's more for large financial companies, large established software companies, telecoms, hollywood etc.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#233

Post by bitmapbrother »

victor106 wrote: post #142
code4tee wrote: post #5

There will be many more. The India IT sector’s main play was cheap labor for low value-add IT tasks like basic dev or ops. The play a while back was to move day-to-day ops jobs to this cheap labor. Now the play is to automate this work so the jobs are disappearing. E.g when you move to the cloud with good architecture you don’t need tons of people pushing buttons and tweaking servers all day long. The India firms hav…

This was true about 10 years ago. But these days I find indian teams are equally as talented as Silicon Valley. There was lot of fluff that was hired during those outsourcing boom years and obviously they need to let go off the less talented but it’s not right to color everybody with the same brush.

>This was true about 10 years ago. But these days I find indian teams are equally as talented as Silicon Valley.

If these Indian teams are equally as talented then where are all of the innovations created by these Indians?

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#234

Post by friedButter »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #120
user5994461 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

70k gross is more than what a senior developer would get anywhere in Germany or France. If you really get that much, you've got it better than all western Europe, except London and Zurich.

Parent is still in an inflated labor bubble. In most of the US outside of the major cities it can be a struggle for experienced engineers to break 80K. I had to walk away from a lot of hideously low priced opportunities when I lived in the mid-west.

> In most of the US outside of the major cities it can be a struggle for experienced engineers to break 80K

A senior dev can make 80k USD in India (before taxes) working for American, non IT services companies

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#235

Post by qaq »

strken wrote: post #213
user5994461 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

70k gross is more than what a senior developer would get anywhere in Germany or France. If you really get that much, you've got it better than all western Europe, except London and Zurich.

I had a recruiter after me with a €100k senior role in Berlin, I thought the market rate in Germany was nearing SV levels.

I know that of the people that I know who moved to Germany everyone is making about the same as they were at home (which is obviously anecdotal evidence). I have no doubt there are some jobs that pay more at the same time I know people making that kind of money or more in Kiev but it's fairly rare.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#236

Post by friedButter »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #21
axiom92 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it comes from their culture, they are not used to work hard or to do something willingly. Cut the crap. India is a country of 1.3 billion people, don't peddle bullshit stereotypes. Not working hard doesn't come from the culture; it's quite the opposite if anything. >They are doing it if they must, if someone tells them that they have to do it. Maybe the firm you are dealing with doesn't pay the employees we…

I am part Indian (albeit ethnically, not culturally) and work in finance. I always had a great experience working with Indian bankers, investors and VCs. The stereotypes puzzled me. Then I spoke to a few IT outsourcing/consulting companies. It’s horrible. Starting sentences with “no” even when agreeing, jargon-laid bullshitting, lying about simple things, overt sexism ( e.g. if my female colleague asks a question, th…

> Then I spoke to a few IT outsourcing/consulting companies

You get what you pay for. The quality of low level employees in IT outsourcing companies (not just the Indian ones) is at par with (or lower than) American minimum wage workers

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#238

Post by throwaway7749 »

I'm sorry, but all "talent" I've worked with in India has all been very lousy and in retrospect makes total sense. You get what you pay for.

I recently left a software company due to their codebase. Low and behold it was constructed by a bunch of cheap worker ants. Sorry, not for me.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#239

Post by flexie »

code4tee wrote: post #5

There will be many more. The India IT sector’s main play was cheap labor for low value-add IT tasks like basic dev or ops. The play a while back was to move day-to-day ops jobs to this cheap labor. Now the play is to automate this work so the jobs are disappearing. E.g when you move to the cloud with good architecture you don’t need tons of people pushing buttons and tweaking servers all day long. The India firms hav…

This is wrong in so many ways. Indian engineering is many things just like in the US or Europe and you can get world class IT specialists in India. If anything, the existense of the IT outsourcing industry in India has helped establishing a growing educated middle class which is the prerequisite for one day being able to churn out even more world class engineers.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#240

Post by aknoob »

ryen wrote: post #109
navinsylvester wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be the case with many IT services firms but assuming that so called home countries brains only can do serious engineering is quite short sighted. I head an engineering team from India and our team is local talent for a firm which is outside India. We believe we do some serious engineering. There is this west fixation that serious engineering can't be done outside. I am not saying it isn't true on most cases but…

>but assuming that so called home countries brains only can do serious engineering is quite short sighted. I don't think thats the point he's trying to make. The Indian IT industry was designed and built for a certain type of labor/outsourcing market. It will take serious investment and attitude shift internally for local startups to grow and retain talent. Much of that talent that is able to perform the serious engi…

Do you have data supporting your claim. I know a lot of people who are really good and continue to work in India. Infact I have also seen a lot of good people coming back to India (since last 2 - 3 years). So things are gradually improving for good.
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