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India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

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Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#151

Post by grad_ml »

mdani wrote: post #146
grad_ml wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is plain BS. I don't recall any CS department in India (and I know 100's) teaching, MS-word, Logo, Basic, Powerpoint, excel etc. However, I did TA'ed at Rice University, TX, Excel course for freshman.

Here school means elementary, middle school,high school etc. where they teach MS Word etc. In India, CS departments are in “colleges” also called “schools” in US so this may not be bullshit for the reason you stated.

Fair observation. I missed that part. My bad!

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#152

Post by aNoob7000 »

thanksgiving wrote: post #81
aNoob7000 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you talk about the cloud, do you mean SAAS, PAAS, or IAAS? I'm asking because we looked into moving our infrastructure to the cloud and the numbers just didn't add up. We've started to move some application to SAAS but most of the stuff just doesn't make sense to move to the cloud.

Can you share some numbers? If you count colocation as cloud, I think there is a wide range of products and services you can use.

Sorry, I really can't share any numbers. I guess for us the biggest stumbling blocks were legacy systems and software licensing.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#153

Post by kamaal »

murukesh_s wrote: post #139
blindwatchmaker wrote: post #103

One of the articles linking from this one ( https://qz.com/964843/less-than-5-of-india-engineers-are-cut... ) made me laugh: > More than two-thirds of the candidates from the top 100 universities in the country were able to write “compilable code,” or that which does not throw errors when compiled into machine-readable code. I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean? Most devs make typos or errors when writing new c…

What is said is partially true. The curriculum wont get updated soon enough to catch up with industry trends. However Basic and Logo or Excel is not true. I graduated in 2004 and Java was the most prominent language we used, followed by C++ and then C. All of these are very relevant even today. However it was upto the students to explore more outside of what is taught in the curriculum. Even if you are not willing to…

>>The curriculum wont get updated soon enough to catch up with industry trends.

No instituition. Not even in the US or any part of the world, will rewrite their syllabus and text books every time something the equivalent of React or Angular JS comes along.

You generally teach the base skills from which much can be learned and grown.

Also I don't understand this thing about asking colleges to train people in the latest tech that is out there.

In almost all cases I have seen, you are way better off hiring good generalists than one trick ponies.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#154

Post by sandGorgon »

These are mostly outsourcing companies.

India's IT industry is realigning towards domestic markets and #MakeInIndia companies - it is more aspirational to join Paytm, Ola, Zomato in India than to work for a US based outsourcer.

It is not even a competition anymore - I'm able to very easily get highly qualified Indians in Silicon Valley to move back and work on something cool in India.

This is the reason that nobody in India (incl the govt) gives a shit about the H1B rule changes in the US. The entire focus of the IT industry is shifting to move up the value chain. We are trying to build more Freshdesk in India and sell them to the world... Rather than body shopping.

It is going to be a time of massive upheaval as a lot of jobs will be lost - both as a consequence of the US pushback on visas as well as the change in strategic focus.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#155

Post by tigershark »

JSONwebtoken wrote: post #36
code4tee wrote: post #5

There will be many more. The India IT sector’s main play was cheap labor for low value-add IT tasks like basic dev or ops. The play a while back was to move day-to-day ops jobs to this cheap labor. Now the play is to automate this work so the jobs are disappearing. E.g when you move to the cloud with good architecture you don’t need tons of people pushing buttons and tweaking servers all day long. The India firms hav…

Not to mention if your only competitive advantage is price, there always is or will be a source of labor that is cheaper than you. For example, a number of startups I work with are now moving their IT support and basic dev to the Philippines. The quality of work is equally bad or worse, but it's even cheaper than India and the language barrier is comparable.

Actually in Philippines pretty much everyone speaks a quite understandable English compared to the average Indian that thinks to be speaking a perfect English while the reality is quite different.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#156

Post by shagie »

blindwatchmaker wrote: post #103

One of the articles linking from this one ( https://qz.com/964843/less-than-5-of-india-engineers-are-cut... ) made me laugh: > More than two-thirds of the candidates from the top 100 universities in the country were able to write “compilable code,” or that which does not throw errors when compiled into machine-readable code. I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean? Most devs make typos or errors when writing new c…

There was a HN post about that “study” ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14156547 - be sure to read the how it works at Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/66kb3c/95_engi... ). There were some very questionable aspects to it and using it as a reference doesn’t reflect well.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#157

Post by blocked_again »

sandGorgon wrote: post #154

These are mostly outsourcing companies. India's IT industry is realigning towards domestic markets and #MakeInIndia companies - it is more aspirational to join Paytm, Ola, Zomato in India than to work for a US based outsourcer. It is not even a competition anymore - I'm able to very easily get highly qualified Indians in Silicon Valley to move back and work on something cool in India. This is the reason that nobody i…

> I'm able to very easily get highly qualified Indians in Silicon Valley to move back and work on something cool in India.

We understand your sentimence. But please don't exaggerate too much :)

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#158

Post by hesarenu »

adrya407 wrote: post #32
cjsawyer wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t stereotype an entire country of people. That said, the Indians I have worked with were diligent workers who all but ignored instructions. They produced lots of work but most of it was not to spec. It was only a few groups though so I really can't speak with any scale backing me up.

>These people are mainly relatively unskilled. These companies are notorious for hiring entire batches of graduating students. Please follow the discussion, I was talking only about the fresh graduates and entry-level employees, I was not at all stereotyping the whole country. On the contrary I find them a pretty impressive nation with outstanding potential in the next century.

>Yes it truly does. Since every individual has inherited from the environment and has been cultured that he needs to do just what he is told (the minimum), this is how he grows.

that is stereotyping at its worst.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#159

Post by unclebucknasty »

jitl wrote: post #145
victor106 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was true about 10 years ago. But these days I find indian teams are equally as talented as Silicon Valley. There was lot of fluff that was hired during those outsourcing boom years and obviously they need to let go off the less talented but it’s not right to color everybody with the same brush.

> Indian teams are as talented as Silicon Valley This might be true for some teams, but in general the IT market in India probably has a similar skill distribution to the IT market in the US; such that the top 15% of the market is the most talented, and the rest is by definition less so. In the US, the top 15% of the market is in Silicon Valley, so if you consider India as a whole, it will not be as talented on avera…

>In the US, the top 15% of the market is in Silicon Valley

Wait. What? Sure, there's a concentration of talent in SV, but to simply say that the top 15% of all U.S. IT talent is there is pretty myopic.

I get your point overall (though I am not saying I agree). But, had to point out that you tossed out your belief as a "stat", as if it were some well-established fact.

Likewise, with your (admittedly) anecdotal observations on Indian teams. Pretty broad generalizations you seem to operate on.

We're entitled to our opinions, but what's ironic is that a worldview that rests on sweeping generalizations about groups of people is actually self-limiting.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#160

Post by sumedh »

navinsylvester wrote: post #122
ryen wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but assuming that so called home countries brains only can do serious engineering is quite short sighted. I don't think thats the point he's trying to make. The Indian IT industry was designed and built for a certain type of labor/outsourcing market. It will take serious investment and attitude shift internally for local startups to grow and retain talent. Much of that talent that is able to perform the serious engi…

> at the big scale the top R&D and engineering work still generally occurs in the home countries that were sending work to India and there’s little evidence that these jobs could, at scale, be done successfully by the Indian firms offshore. I was talking about this outright dismissal without any ground. > Indian IT industry was designed and built for a certain type of labor/outsourcing market. Indian IT industry got…

> And also - we can afford couple of maids in a decent paying job

Which is nothing to be proud of, the maids are affordable because lot of poor people did not have the same privileges like you had.

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