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World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

theguardian.com

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Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#121

Post by darkstar999 »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #92
aerophilic wrote: post #54

There was an interesting study posted (I believe here) on how a flat 10% re-distribution (10% taxed from everyone, then redistributed evenly across everyone, aka basic income), created a more stable "society" in simulation. It did this by helping support a larger "middle class". Does anyone know the link/can point me to the study? Google is failing me at the moment...

The biggest issue with any sort of basic income is that landlords and grocery store owners will just ever-increase their prices. How do we combat that?

I've thought the same thing. The basic income would be the new baseline, and I think we'd see the same poverty rates.

"Why do you need a raise? You get $xxx in basic income." - Boss

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#122

Post by Mikeb85 »

twoodfin wrote: post #2

This article provides paragraph after paragraph of supporting data that the richest have gotten richer, but none that I can see supporting its claim that “billions of poorer people across the world have seen their wealth standstill or decline”.

As the wealth gets more concentrated at the top, the wealth 'share' of poorer people declines even if their wealth nominally rises.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#123

Post by oreo81 »

aalleavitch wrote: post #80
ptaipale wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even controversial, it's wrong. Poverty, particularly extreme poverty, has been decreasing rapidly over the past 25 years. Of course, this doesn't mean that everyone is better; there are always winners and some losers, and there are setbacks here and there, but the big picture is one of great progress. For more, one should read the Human Development Reports: http://hdr.undp.org/sites/default/files/2016_human…

This is true for worldwide poverty. This is not true for US poverty.

In the US "poverty" now includes access to netflix. Poverty has absolutely gotten better in the US over the years.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#124

Post by oreo81 »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #109
ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare the "regular" person of today to the "regular" person of 50 years ago. Is it easier or harder to afford basic foodstuffs? Do they eat out (luxury) more or less? If they own a home, is it larger or the same size? Who travels more? Who has better healthcare? Who spends more on entertainment? How much do they spend on the family pet? Who spent more time furthering their education? All of these are measures of we…

This is very shortsighted-claiming that all of these trends have to do with being richer, is simply absurd. Also, "regular" person? What age? Male? Female? What does that even mean? This is just utter nonsense. But I will humor you: > Is it easier or harder to afford basic foodstuffs? Processed foods are far easier to afford, but they are extremely unhealthy. As for other basics, many have gone up over the last 50 ye…

What a greedy ungrateful person you are.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#126

Post by volgo »

As capitalism matures, it's clear to anyone with a thread of financial literacy that most wealth is created through capital gains rather than salary. We're approaching a state (at least in developed countries) where productivity is so high, that you can literally park your money in 500 of the biggest businesses and you're almost guaranteed a 7% annual return (if you hold stocks for the long term).

Using the commonly accepted safe withdraw rate of 4%, if you inherit $3 million (which is not even that much), you can safely collect $120,000 of capital gains/dividend income every year without doing anything. This also frees you up to work on other things that will acquire you even more wealth. People whose parents didn't leave them a large inheritance have to rely on salary, which is taxed at a higher rate and more difficult to earn.

In effect, late stage capitalism becomes the anti-thesis of the spirit of capitalism - devoid of competition, free innovation, and upward mobility. In an ideal capitalism society, the most talented should earn the most, but the compounding effect of capital makes it so that whoever holds wealth the longest earns the most.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#127

Post by cmurf »

aalleavitch wrote: post #89
coliveira wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who do not contribute to society are what we call parasites. Just because your father or grand-grand-father did something useful to the world doesn't justify that you have to live like a king. Modern society destroyed the old feudal order exactly to avoid this kind of social injustice.

You don't even need to get all this righteous anger involved; the rich benefit more from the stable functioning of society than the poor precisely because they are rich. If the structures that support that wealth were to collapse they'd have a lot more to lose than the guy drowning in debt. It's not only reasonable to expect them to invest more proportionally in the continued functioning of society: it's in their bes…

Who says they're smart enough? There's a very long history of aristocracies perfectly content to exploit the lower classes, and then got all shocked when the peons wanted the wealthy executed - assuming of course the aristocrats hadn't first riled up the ignorant masses with some reason to start a war.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#129

Post by dbingham »

twoodfin wrote: post #2

This article provides paragraph after paragraph of supporting data that the richest have gotten richer, but none that I can see supporting its claim that “billions of poorer people across the world have seen their wealth standstill or decline”.

It's a pretty well understood and accepted fact at this point. It's been a major talking point in economic and political circles for the past 5 - 10 years.

The sources below are from a quick Google search. They mostly reference income stagnation and are about the US. But income stagnation leads to wealth stagnation and there are similar trends world wide. Thomas Picketty's Capital in the 21st Century is largely about this issue, as is Robert Reich's documentary Inequality for All. There are those who challenge the conclusions drawn in both, but few seriously contest the data they point to.

[1] http://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/ [2] https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/10/02/349863761/40-y... [3] https://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2013/09/incomes [4] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/sunday-review/americas-pro...

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#130

Post by Danihan »

volgo wrote: post #126

As capitalism matures, it's clear to anyone with a thread of financial literacy that most wealth is created through capital gains rather than salary. We're approaching a state (at least in developed countries) where productivity is so high, that you can literally park your money in 500 of the biggest businesses and you're almost guaranteed a 7% annual return (if you hold stocks for the long term). Using the commonly…

I agree with much of what you said, yet I just don't see it as all that bad of a situation.

I still think there is a lot of upward mobility even in that scenario -- the smarter people I know earn good salaries and have nice lifestyles. Nicer than their parents, in most cases, mainly because consumer technology constantly gets better and cheaper.

And there is still opportunity for risk takers to start their own companies, and it's really not all that hard with some traction to get acquired by a bigger player.

Of course, people with a lot of capital get rewarded for holding onto it / being conservative with it, but that's just common sense, not throwing good money after bad.

It's like we're all supposed to say, "Yeah! Late stage capitalism is so awful!" and nod along, but it doesn't feel awful to me at all. I have a 2016 Mazda that cost $18k and it's just awesome for the price. I bought a brand new iPhone SE for $150. I bought a 50 inch TV on black Friday for $200.

My parents as kids didn't have running water in their houses.

I'm not all about materialism, but I'm really at a loss for what exactly I'm supposed to be feeling outraged about. I don't even really make that high of a salary, just average middle class.

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