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Airbus ready to axe A380 if fails to win Emirates deal

reuters.com

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Re: Airbus ready to axe A380 if fails to win Emirates deal

#101

Post by gsnedders »

rchowe wrote: post #25
zerkten wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like a company can only make one successful move at a time (in what I find a very ugly) industry. At the lower end Boeing struggles with the 737 being too large for a lot of markets. There Embraer, Bombardier (now part of Airbus), and a bunch of other companies seem to have an opportunity, if they can execute. It'll be interesting to see what Boeing does there given the cozy relationship with Embraer.

Bombardier is not a part of Airbus now, they just sold 50.01% of the C-series program to Airbus so that they could manufacture them in Alabama and dodge the 300% tariff imposed on them by the US government. It is unclear where the C-series airplanes for non-US markets will be made, but it's suspected to still be by Bombardier in Canada.

> It is unclear where the C-series airplanes for non-US markets will be made, but it's suspected to still be by Bombardier in Canada.

It's pretty clear—Canada. That said, there's a significant change: sales, and post-sales work, will mostly be handled by Airbus, who already have much more contact with many more airlines and leasing companies than Bombardier.

Re: Airbus ready to axe A380 if fails to win Emirates deal

#102

Post by mapgrep »

chimeracoder wrote: post #61
namdnay wrote: post #2

I fly Emirates A380 from time to time, I have to say the business class is better than the first class of most carriers. Very quiet, masses of space, and the bar is not bad at all when you want to stretch your legs. And when you get bumped up to first... having a shower on a flight is very nice :) The only problem is the godawful stopover in Dubai - If there is one advantage that the non-gulf carriers have, it's that…

> The only problem is the godawful stopover in Dubai - If there is one advantage that the non-gulf carriers have, it's that they can offer short+long haul to get from Europe to Asia, as opposed to medium+medium/long. Emirates does offer at least one of these flights (NYC to Milan). Though I'm not sure if it's an A380 - I suspect it's not. I wish I had the spare cash to fly their business class on the A380 before it g…

It is indeed a 380. Even in economy, the Italian food (and wine) was very respectable.

Re: Airbus ready to axe A380 if fails to win Emirates deal

#103

Post by sjm-lbm »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #98
monocasa wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 787 is a little more than half the capacity of a 747.

The general point being nobody wants a passenger plane with the A380 or 747's capacity anymore. Small, efficient, long-distance planes like the 787, A350 and C-Series are rendering the larger format obsolete.

.. just to piggy back on this and add a "why": the smaller long range planes are allowing airlines to connect smaller cities with direct flights while still making money. This is easier for customers, and is insanely popular.

An example here is British Airways' service from New Orleans to London. Obviously, some amount of people have always wanted to get from New Orleans to London, but previously they've been flying though Dallas/Atlanta/New York, etc. The 787 allows BA to offer a much better product to those customers, and the size/cost to operate a 787 is what makes the flight commercially viable. When the sky is full of airplanes operating flights like that, there's no one group of people in one place to fill up a jumbo.

Re: Airbus ready to axe A380 if fails to win Emirates deal

#104

Post by reaperducer »

Yizahi wrote: post #90

I may be dumb but I don't understand the numbers in the article. They write Airbus has "96 unfilled orders" then say that "47 of those are unlikely to be delivered". So they won't be ordered or won't be delivered? If it's the latter then won't it be breach of contract on Airbus side and just kinda plain stupid? And if it's the former that doesn't it contradict previous number of 96 units ordered? Next they say "deliv…

This happens all the time. Airline X places an order for 50 new jets. The jets take 15 years to build. Three years later, economics shift. Maybe Airline X is bought by Airline Y and doesn't need all those jets. Some of the orders are cancelled. You read about it all the time in the business press.

Re: Airbus ready to axe A380 if fails to win Emirates deal

#105

Post by gsnedders »

org3432 wrote: post #80

Naive question, but what routes does Emirates fly that could make an A380 worth it? That's a big plane.

Dubai is slot contained, and they fly to plenty of other slot contained airports.

As far as I'm aware, London to Dubai alone has seven daily A380 flights. More generally, Emirates have gone for a single daily A380 flight instead of more frequent flights to many destinations.

Re: Airbus ready to axe A380 if fails to win Emirates deal

#106

Post by junkscience2017 »

mpweiher wrote: post #71
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if the A380 is struggling, the 747 is moribund or dead Boeing has built and sold over 1,500 747s [1]. It first flew in 1969 and is now being end of lifed. It has been obscenely profitable over its lifetime. The A380 first flew in 2005 [2]. It has been a commercial disaster. The 747 was a great plane for 1969. Airbus built the finest horse-drawn carriage just as the Model T came out. > constrained slots at major air…

> It has been obscenely profitable over its lifetime Exactly. And these obscene profits in a line where it had no competition were a problem for Airbus. A problem that has now disappeared. > The A380 first flew in 2005 [2]. It has been a commercial disaster. (a) It helped kill the "obscenely profitable" 747. (b) It was a hedge in case airlines were going to stick with the hub-and-spoke model (c) Slot constraints may…

fuel costs killed the 747, not the A380

we know this is true because no one is replacing retired 747s with A380s, they are replacing them with smaller, more fuel efficient planes

Re: Airbus ready to axe A380 if fails to win Emirates deal

#107

Post by gsnedders »

namdnay wrote: post #14
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do pay off for large congested airports with limited landing slots (e.g. Beijing between Guangzhou, which is the only 380 I’ve flown on). But this isn’t as much of a problem as we thought it would be 20 years ago. Incidentally, this used to be why Japan flew so many 747s on domestic routes.

The problem is that the A380 creates so much wake turbulence that the next aircraft has to take off a bit later, negating some (but not all) of the advantage!

That depends on whether you have enough A380s out of the airport you don't need to worry about wake separation so much (I imagine, despite never being there, that Dubai is like that at certain times of day!).

Re: Airbus ready to axe A380 if fails to win Emirates deal

#108

Post by andy_ppp »

ghaff wrote: post #84
valuearb wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boeing played it better because they did not re-invest heavily in the 747, and let it die. It’s not a question of competition. If all of the remaining 747 orders switch to the A380, its still a failure. And as far as airport congestion goes, building new airports is far easier than new rail lines.

>And as far as airport congestion goes, building new airports is far easier than new rail lines. Might tell Berlin that :-) It may be true in general if there's undeveloped space within an hour or so drive of a major city center but major airport construction, at least in Western countries, usually hasn't gone smoothly.

Wow, there is so much space around Berlin I don’t even know where to start with this, there’s even an airstrip in town still. I know it’s a park now but seriously of all the major cities I’ve lived in building a new airport should be relatively easy... unless it’s a conscious decision to prefer the train?

Tegel is horrible but it’s also really quick - you can and I have arrived 30mins before a flight and make it just fine.

Oh BER looks like the rarest of things, a German construction disaster! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Brandenburg_Airport

Re: Airbus ready to axe A380 if fails to win Emirates deal

#109

Post by SteveCoast »

monocasa wrote: post #94
1_2__4 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, the 787 is what kiled the 747. As in Boeing decided, as all companies do, to retire a line in favor of a more modern one. It’s really weird you don’t acknowledge that at all.

The 787 is a little more than half the capacity of a 747.

At a lower $/passenger/mile.

Why fly one 747 from NY to London and make people connect to it, when you can fly one 787 from Denver and one 787 from Chicago?

Re: Airbus ready to axe A380 if fails to win Emirates deal

#110

Post by junkscience2017 »

monocasa wrote: post #94
1_2__4 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, the 787 is what kiled the 747. As in Boeing decided, as all companies do, to retire a line in favor of a more modern one. It’s really weird you don’t acknowledge that at all.

The 787 is a little more than half the capacity of a 747.

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