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Apple faces lawsuits after admitting it slows down aging iPhones

abc.net.au

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Re: Apple faces lawsuits after admitting it slows down aging iPhones

#61

Post by mmjaa »

ako wrote: post #52
canuckintime wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This feels like a no win situation for Apple... If Apple fucked up, why should there be a 'win' situation for them? The obvious solution would be Apple replacing the batteries for free. Instead Apple won't even let you pay them to replace the battery if it's not in EOL mode — despite throttling starting well before then.

Why should apple replace batteries for free? Do you expect a car company to replace car-batteries or tires for free? Some components just wear and need to be replaced. Apple just provided a workaround that ensures your device doesn't crash due to the worn out component.

Apple decided to not let the consumer have the choice or ability to swap their own batteries. They've painted themselves into a corner here - and I think they should pay for this, indeed. Its clear that these moves were made solely to maximise profit for Apple, not to protect the consumer and provide them the best-quality experience.

Re: Apple faces lawsuits after admitting it slows down aging iPhones

#62

Post by lloeki »

aikinai wrote: post #32
izacus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every year you see Tim Cook happily quote performance numbers on the keynote about how superior iPhones are compared to other manufacturers. When you buy the iPhone, they go and slow it down to make it run slower after a two or three yearsa. Like VW would lock your 300HP Passat to 200HP after three years with excuse of keeping the mileage up... without telling you in any way. How is that NOT considered false advertis…

Cars do get weaker over time as the parts wear. And I would certainly expect the microcontroller to adjust to provide the best performance possible under the new limitations. I assume most well-made, modern cars already do that.

Well you'd loose maybe some couple percent tops over a dozen years but basically nothing more on a properly maintained car (regular oil change, spark plugs, bearings, whatever).

Here we're talking about halving the device performance after a single year because the thing is designed on such a tight rope that it can't handle the slightest voltage drop which happens to come way too soon because the battery wears out so fast.

From an engineering perspective it looks like the latest devices are designed so that they provide blistering performance out of the box, satisfactory performance 6 months in and something ranging to barely adequate to crapshoot 1 year in. That is, picture a graph f(time) with a horizontal line that defines "This device is OK" WRT your favorite metric (performance, battery life, whatever) on the vertical axis, and it seems to me that the device should be designed to stay above this line long enough, but when objectively looking at it, it appears that the line is crossed way too soon, around the 6 month mark. That is when I started to notice my phone wasn't quite holding up all day, that there were performance glitches here and there that started to annoyingly grow on me, but I was dismissing all of this because hey I shelled out xxx€ for this device, and it can't break down that so fast, because Apple, so it must be all in my head or something.

I cannot imagine Apple not having such graphs when designing a device prior to release, nor after release with all the telemetry they gather. That is, to me, where the fraud can lie: a design where the device produces delightful performance for a known short while, followed by a growing frustration to be released again through delight when a new device is bought. The question is, is this premeditated?

Re: Apple faces lawsuits after admitting it slows down aging iPhones

#63

Post by lapdanz »

The elephant in the room that no one addresses is that Apple offers 3 year extended warranty programs for which they refuse to fix the malfunctioning batteries by claiming that they pass their tests. This is despite the fact that the tests ran by the phone obviously fail (let's assume that Apple indeed checks the status of our batteries and is not applying blanket throttling) leading to the frequency limits.

Re: Apple faces lawsuits after admitting it slows down aging iPhones

#64

Post by duncanawoods »

scarlac wrote: post #57
duncanawoods wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's strategy has been to sell devices in an unstable overclocked state with marketing based on benchmarks and then secretly downgrade to a stable configuration later in life. Its ultimately a bait and switch deception driven by fraudulent marketing.

> Apple's strategy has been to sell devices in an unstable overclocked state I can't confirm this in any way. Can you provide some links or at least an anecdote measurement on how your device was clearly overclocked?

Its overclocked wrt to the design parameters of the device (battery voltage). The rated clockspeed is what can be sustained over the lifetime of the device, not the peak speed. The fact you can temporarily push a faster clockspeed is not what you can claim is "normal".

So, the speed reduction is not "rated" -> "throttled" because it was not sustainable, it was actually "overclocked" -> "rated".

Re: Apple faces lawsuits after admitting it slows down aging iPhones

#65

Post by izacus »

mch82 wrote: post #58
izacus wrote: post #35

Note that this goes well with Apple fighting against right to repair and 3rd party repairers - if they can make your phone slow over time and prevent you from cheaply and easily replacing the battery, they essentially force you to replace your pocket computer every two years or so - the pesky "iPad Upgrade Problem" disappears for them. I think we shouldn't look at this issue in isolation - Apple (earning bulk their m…

$79 for a replacement battery seems reasonable, https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/battery-power > If you're covered under AppleCare+, we'll replace your battery at no charge if it retains less than 80 percent of its original capacity. > If your iPhone needs battery replacement and it’s not covered, the service fee is $79. I agree that I wish it were easier to repair and upgrade Apple products.

Yes, of course it does. If you know that the battery is faulty. Doesn't really change the fact that Apple is actively fighting against any legislation that would make electronics repairable though.

Re: Apple faces lawsuits after admitting it slows down aging iPhones

#66

Post by thisacctforreal »

sa1f wrote: post #7
chipperyman573 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Optimizing for speed instead of device survivability. Basically, instead of running at 110% for the first year then throttling to much less so the device doesn't break, they should have shipped them running at 90-100% so they can last longer. (Those numbers are random but the point is still valid)

Hmm, just a bit skeptical about that. I'm pretty sure that peak "110%" usage rarely happens throughout the day; Maybe during video playback or gaming. This is especially true since the iPhone 7, with its two low power cores who's entire purpose is to extend battery life.

IIUC the low power cores could be configured to both extend short-term battery life (daily cycles), and decrease long-term battery life.

The uproar is strictly re: long-term battery life.

Re: Apple faces lawsuits after admitting it slows down aging iPhones

#67

Post by goldenkey »

watmough wrote: post #53
crypt1d wrote: post #48

As far as I'm concerned, this is a deal breaker. I've been an iOS user since 3GS and now I'm ready to jump ship. Apple has been disappointing me since few years now, and I've postponed migrating to Android mostly because I'm accustomed to its UX. But this is enough of a push for me to make an effort to give Android a try. I'm looking into Oneplus 5T and Pixel 2 XL. Any other suggestions?

For $500, the Essential Phone may be worth a look. My wife seems pretty happy with hers.

Seems like we are being downvoted for giviing opinions on phones. Sometimes I don't understand this site...Thoughts?

Re: Apple faces lawsuits after admitting it slows down aging iPhones

#68

Post by marklyon »

lapdanz wrote: post #63

The elephant in the room that no one addresses is that Apple offers 3 year extended warranty programs for which they refuse to fix the malfunctioning batteries by claiming that they pass their tests. This is despite the fact that the tests ran by the phone obviously fail (let's assume that Apple indeed checks the status of our batteries and is not applying blanket throttling) leading to the frequency limits.

I actually encountered this with my 6+, which I eventually upgraded. It was quickly depleting the battery, but the tests showed it was fine. The tech urged me to upgrade to the latest iOS, which I was hesitant to do, since I'd heard doing so would slow my phone. I didn't want a slow phone with a battery that died quickly. He assured me that the slowness had been addressed. Wanting to fix my phone, I upgraded. [0]

Immediate slowness, to the point of being unusable, demonstrated to the in-store techs. Launching Twitter, for instance, would take minutes and crash half the time. I then found there was no supported method of reverting the upgrade, though one tech told me that if I browsed YouTube I could find a tutorial. I didn't want to DIY a downgrade and still have the short battery life, so I ended up selling my phone for a very low price and buying a new one. If I'd known replacing the battery would have revived it, I'd have happily done that.

[0] https://i.imgur.com/OYZr7zd.png

Re: Apple faces lawsuits after admitting it slows down aging iPhones

#69

Post by fuzzfactor »

williamscales wrote: post #12

Can someone explain to me how this can reasonably be considered fraud? I don't think Apple makes any guarantees about the performance an iPhone will sustain over time.

Maybe not actual fraud, we will see.

IANAL but in places like Texas there would appear to be little to no defense against a lawsuit brought under the Deceptive Trade Practices Act where illicit behavior does not have to rise to the level of fraud.

Mainly you are supposed to get your money back plus perhaps additional compensations if you give notice within the proper time frame (this would seem to be within 2 years from when the deception was realized, or within 60 days to qualify for treble damages if a lawsuit is brought) and if the vendor fails to comply then you can sue them.

http://www.ffllp.com/cadtpa/

Violations of this consumer-protection regulation appear to rely more on whether the particular consumer was deceived than whether the deception was intentional, although if intentional it looks like treble damages.

http://www.westfirm.com/tx_dtpa_.html

Consumers over the age of 65 appear to be especially well protected.

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/texas-law/texas-deceptive-trade...

http://pdf.legalformsfortexas.com/PDFs/Civil/CIVLIT_58.pdf

Re: Apple faces lawsuits after admitting it slows down aging iPhones

#70

Post by time0ut »

crypt1d wrote: post #48

As far as I'm concerned, this is a deal breaker. I've been an iOS user since 3GS and now I'm ready to jump ship. Apple has been disappointing me since few years now, and I've postponed migrating to Android mostly because I'm accustomed to its UX. But this is enough of a push for me to make an effort to give Android a try. I'm looking into Oneplus 5T and Pixel 2 XL. Any other suggestions?

I made the jump to Pixel 2 (not XL) a couple weeks ago after being a long time iOS user. I mostly used Google services already, so the transition was very smooth. The Android UX is very good and easy to get used to.
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