Apple faces lawsuits after admitting it slows down aging iPhones
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Re: Apple faces lawsuits after admitting it slows down aging iPhones
#2I really like Linus' (Sebastian, not Torvalds) thoughts about this: https://youtu.be/TJUeHmdzSx4?t=11m22s
Basically, Apple chose to tune the phones to run at a dangerously high configuration to increase benchmarks, knowing that the battery will degrade like this (and that when the iphone X2 comes out, nobody will be talking about this, instead they'll be talking about how much faster the X2 is than the X).
His exact quote is that "they are running them so close to the red line that surely they must know, when they're shipping these things (Because it's not like LiOn batteries are especially new tech at this point, and Apple has done TONS of research in this field), Apple knows pretty much exactly what's going to happen with this, pretty much perfectly, and they're making the conscious decision to do this"
Before I heard this I thought "Oh come on, Apple truely is protecting your phone here", but after hearing his argument I changed my mind.
Re: Apple faces lawsuits after admitting it slows down aging iPhones
#3I really like Linus' (Sebastian, not Torvalds) thoughts about this: https://youtu.be/TJUeHmdzSx4?t=11m22s Basically, Apple chose to tune the phones to run at a dangerously high configuration to increase benchmarks, knowing that the battery will degrade like this (and that when the iphone X2 comes out, nobody will be talking about this, instead they'll be talking about how much faster the X2 is than the X). His exact…
What does "running them close to the red line" mean? Do iPhone batteries degrade faster than other phones?
Re: Apple faces lawsuits after admitting it slows down aging iPhones
#4I really like Linus' (Sebastian, not Torvalds) thoughts about this: https://youtu.be/TJUeHmdzSx4?t=11m22s Basically, Apple chose to tune the phones to run at a dangerously high configuration to increase benchmarks, knowing that the battery will degrade like this (and that when the iphone X2 comes out, nobody will be talking about this, instead they'll be talking about how much faster the X2 is than the X). His exact…
What does "running them close to the red line" mean? Do iPhone batteries degrade faster than other phones?
Optimizing for speed instead of device survivability. Basically, instead of running at 110% for the first year then throttling to much less so the device doesn't break, they should have shipped them running at 90-100% so they can last longer. (Those numbers are random but the point is still valid)
Re: Apple faces lawsuits after admitting it slows down aging iPhones
#5Earlier quoted context omitted.
What does "running them close to the red line" mean? Do iPhone batteries degrade faster than other phones?
Optimizing for speed instead of device survivability. Basically, instead of running at 110% for the first year then throttling to much less so the device doesn't break, they should have shipped them running at 90-100% so they can last longer. (Those numbers are random but the point is still valid)
I don't think that's a fair representation of what's happening though. The reality is that running it at 110% (for whatever that means) is using a new battery at its maximum discharge rate. As the battery ages, its maximum discharge rate decreases, and would have whether run at 110% or 90%. You need to go way out of spec to prematurely age batteries by discharging too fast. They age mostly by being exposed to high temperatures, stored fully charged, and by being fully discharged (partial charge cycles are better). Artificially limiting performance to the post-degradation level can be seen as wasteful, can it not?
Now the way Apple handled it, silently, throttling performance without a configuration option is interesting. I think the benchmarks may not be truly representative of what is happening, and it's probably closer to a TDP limit on the CPU where it runs real fast until it realizes it can't then it ... doesn't. That comes across as maximally efficient in real life but slow in benchmarks.
This is all in the marketing. Either you can look at it as "iPhone find a way to squeeze every last bit of battery life out of both new and old devices" or you can look at it as "my phone slows down over time" -- the reality of the chemistry of lithium ion devices.
IMO this should be handled with a configuration switch and a notification when performance starts to become limited, though how many would be totally confused by this? That hundreds of millions of users took years to notice should be an indication this whole thing worked pretty well IMO.
Re: Apple faces lawsuits after admitting it slows down aging iPhones
#6I really like Linus' (Sebastian, not Torvalds) thoughts about this: https://youtu.be/TJUeHmdzSx4?t=11m22s Basically, Apple chose to tune the phones to run at a dangerously high configuration to increase benchmarks, knowing that the battery will degrade like this (and that when the iphone X2 comes out, nobody will be talking about this, instead they'll be talking about how much faster the X2 is than the X). His exact…
If Apple slowed the phone down upfront then people would complain that Apple were throttling as the user is “too dumb to look after their battery properly” so instead they are doing when they can point to a proven need to throttle the device. This feels like a no win situation for Apple unless they had/will put in “throttle my phone so it doesn’t go weird” switch in settings.
Side note: we’ve known for years that hammering a battery day in day out causes problems, my wife and I have had our 6S phones for the same amount of time - I plug mine in as much as possible (over charging is not a problem anymore) and she runs hers into the red all the time. After 2 years my phone runs fine and, when needed, I get a days charge out of it but she barely gets 4 hours and is noticeably slower. If people looked after their batteries better this would be less of a problem.
Re: Apple faces lawsuits after admitting it slows down aging iPhones
#7Earlier quoted context omitted.
What does "running them close to the red line" mean? Do iPhone batteries degrade faster than other phones?
Optimizing for speed instead of device survivability. Basically, instead of running at 110% for the first year then throttling to much less so the device doesn't break, they should have shipped them running at 90-100% so they can last longer. (Those numbers are random but the point is still valid)
Hmm, just a bit skeptical about that. I'm pretty sure that peak "110%" usage rarely happens throughout the day; Maybe during video playback or gaming.
This is especially true since the iPhone 7, with its two low power cores who's entire purpose is to extend battery life.
Re: Apple faces lawsuits after admitting it slows down aging iPhones
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
Optimizing for speed instead of device survivability. Basically, instead of running at 110% for the first year then throttling to much less so the device doesn't break, they should have shipped them running at 90-100% so they can last longer. (Those numbers are random but the point is still valid)
I don't think that's a fair representation of what's happening though. The reality is that running it at 110% (for whatever that means) is using a new battery at its maximum discharge rate. As the battery ages, its maximum discharge rate decreases, and would have whether run at 110% or 90%. You need to go way out of spec to prematurely age batteries by discharging too fast. They age mostly by being exposed to high te…
> That hundreds of millions of users took years to notice should be an indication this whole thing worked pretty well IMO.
People absolutely have been noticing, this has been a very popular and long running issue. It took years for Apple to admit it, not for people to notice.
I think this could have been better handled by throttling according to the actual condition of the battery, rather than controlling it via software updates. The former seems reasonable, the latter is pretty shady. (Maybe this is actually what is happening and the press has confused what is going on.)
Re: Apple faces lawsuits after admitting it slows down aging iPhones
#9I really like Linus' (Sebastian, not Torvalds) thoughts about this: https://youtu.be/TJUeHmdzSx4?t=11m22s Basically, Apple chose to tune the phones to run at a dangerously high configuration to increase benchmarks, knowing that the battery will degrade like this (and that when the iphone X2 comes out, nobody will be talking about this, instead they'll be talking about how much faster the X2 is than the X). His exact…
For those interested this is Linus Sebastian (or his last name "Tech Tips"), not Torvalds... As the video was loading I was wondering if Torvalds had started commenting on general tech news.
Re: Apple faces lawsuits after admitting it slows down aging iPhones
#10I really like Linus' (Sebastian, not Torvalds) thoughts about this: https://youtu.be/TJUeHmdzSx4?t=11m22s Basically, Apple chose to tune the phones to run at a dangerously high configuration to increase benchmarks, knowing that the battery will degrade like this (and that when the iphone X2 comes out, nobody will be talking about this, instead they'll be talking about how much faster the X2 is than the X). His exact…
If Apple slowed the phone down upfront then people would complain that Apple were throttling as the user is “too dumb to look after their battery properly” so instead they are doing when they can point to a proven need to throttle the device. This feels like a no win situation for Apple unless they had/will put in “throttle my phone so it doesn’t go weird” switch in settings. Side note: we’ve known for years that ham…
On that note, it'd be nice if Apple were more user-friendly about battery cycle counts. I don't think there's a way for me to see battery health without installing an app, and I've never seen a message asking me to replace the battery in my two-year-old iPhone.