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An update on Better Ads (Chrome native ad-blocking)

developers.google.com

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Re: An update on Better Ads (Chrome native ad-blocking)

#51

Post by Dylan16807 »

kodablah wrote: post #35
Dylan16807 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> maintain their own whitelist which will obviously not block Adsense ads You make this sound like some kind of trick. The stated goal is to block especially obnoxious ads, of the kind adsense doesn't do. I can't say if it's going to be fair or not, but the way it treads adsense specifically isn't going to be the deciding factor.

> especially obnoxious ads, of the kind adsense doesn't do. That's your opinion, not everyone's. Luckily I'll easily be able to use what meets my definition of obnoxious with this feature (i.e. custom lists for this native blocker) instead of yours or this consortium's, right?

I'm interested to hear your definition of "especially obnoxious" ads that fits adsense. And no, "all ads" doesn't count.

Unless adsense has gotten worse since I last looked? I don't pay a whole lot of attention to the advertising space.

Re: An update on Better Ads (Chrome native ad-blocking)

#52

Post by Dylan16807 »

jacques_chester wrote: post #50
ivanbakel wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The stated goal is to block especially obnoxious ads, of the kind adsense doesn't do. Either way you think the relation goes probably depends on your opinion of Google, but I would take this as thinking backwards. Google has lots of interest in preventing Adsense from being blocked as part of some broad-stroke policy, so everything they do as part of their adblocking policy has that in mind - wherever users prefer t…

Put another way, this is an example of standard Google strategy: defend and control the approaches to the advertising river of gold. Chrome was itself just such an investment. By controlling a major browser (eventually, the dominant browser), they can prevent Mozilla or Microsoft from cutting them out. Now they want to prevent the increasing pool of ad blockers from freezing out adsense. Happily for Google, this mean…

> Disclosure: I have been working on a business, Robojar, intended to remove advertising and bypass paywalls in exchange for microsubscriptions. Google have a very similar model in Contributor.

Good luck! I love the idea of micropayments from a fixed budget to support sites, but Contributor's bidding-based system was not a good path at all.

> they will only be guaranteed to show up in Chrome if they use adsense

That's the worst-case scenario, as far as power abuse here. But they might be fair! We'll have to see.

Re: An update on Better Ads (Chrome native ad-blocking)

#53

Post by jacques_chester »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #52
jacques_chester wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put another way, this is an example of standard Google strategy: defend and control the approaches to the advertising river of gold. Chrome was itself just such an investment. By controlling a major browser (eventually, the dominant browser), they can prevent Mozilla or Microsoft from cutting them out. Now they want to prevent the increasing pool of ad blockers from freezing out adsense. Happily for Google, this mean…

> Disclosure: I have been working on a business, Robojar, intended to remove advertising and bypass paywalls in exchange for microsubscriptions. Google have a very similar model in Contributor. Good luck! I love the idea of micropayments from a fixed budget to support sites, but Contributor's bidding-based system was not a good path at all. > they will only be guaranteed to show up in Chrome if they use adsense That'…

I want to give Google the credit for a conceptually elegant approach that will slot neatly into the existing bidding system.

But it seems to think of humans and adtech bidding ecosystems as identical economic agents. If we're all perfect consumers, sure, the system converges to an equilibrium.

That seems like a mighty generous "if". It's already annoying to manage the mental cost of schemes like Patreon's. How much more annoying is to have to forecast, several weeks in advance, a bidding system that settles in milliseconds, millions of times per minute?

It's worth noting that I may be misunderstanding or misrepresenting the nuances and design of the Contributor scheme. I'm a potential competitor, my remarks ought to be look on skeptically.

But likewise I ask people to follow the money. Cui bono? In this case: Google.

Re: An update on Better Ads (Chrome native ad-blocking)

#54

Post by Dylan16807 »

jacques_chester wrote: post #53
Dylan16807 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Disclosure: I have been working on a business, Robojar, intended to remove advertising and bypass paywalls in exchange for microsubscriptions. Google have a very similar model in Contributor. Good luck! I love the idea of micropayments from a fixed budget to support sites, but Contributor's bidding-based system was not a good path at all. > they will only be guaranteed to show up in Chrome if they use adsense That'…

I want to give Google the credit for a conceptually elegant approach that will slot neatly into the existing bidding system. But it seems to think of humans and adtech bidding ecosystems as identical economic agents. If we're all perfect consumers, sure, the system converges to an equilibrium. That seems like a mighty generous "if". It's already annoying to manage the mental cost of schemes like Patreon's. How much m…

My main objection to the bidding system is not even the unpredictability, but that it rewards the wrong things. I don't want to pay more to a site that happens to have car insurance ads. I don't want to pay less to a site that installed fewer banners.

...hang on, when did google contributor relaunch as a service that pays per-page-load, is opt-in per domain, and is basically useless?

Google, you manage to do youtube red just fine. Try harder.

Re: An update on Better Ads (Chrome native ad-blocking)

#55

Post by jacques_chester »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #54
jacques_chester wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to give Google the credit for a conceptually elegant approach that will slot neatly into the existing bidding system. But it seems to think of humans and adtech bidding ecosystems as identical economic agents. If we're all perfect consumers, sure, the system converges to an equilibrium. That seems like a mighty generous "if". It's already annoying to manage the mental cost of schemes like Patreon's. How much m…

My main objection to the bidding system is not even the unpredictability, but that it rewards the wrong things. I don't want to pay more to a site that happens to have car insurance ads. I don't want to pay less to a site that installed fewer banners. ...hang on, when did google contributor relaunch as a service that pays per-page-load, is opt-in per domain, and is basically useless? Google, you manage to do youtube…

Oh wow, you're right. The model has gotten even more cognitively expensive.

This somewhat widens my ray of hope.

Re: An update on Better Ads (Chrome native ad-blocking)

#56

Post by on_and_off »

kodablah wrote: post #46
on_and_off wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be the only one here but I have been waiting for a long time for something similar to what Google is attempting to do here. I don't want to block ALL ads. Only the annoying ones (mostly popup and popunder). I am ok with being displayed ads by defaults for the sites I consult (especially the ones I like) since it is an acceptable form of micropayment (I should mention that I don't see ads no youtube since I pa…

I'm confused. You used an example of not realizing you were blocking ads from a site to support a less transparent blocking approach? Why can't you just take the list from this better-ads program and use it in your extension? (And if you can't, think about why you can't) I can't figure out whether your problem is with the current crop of extensions or the filter lists. Regardless of which it is, I'm not sure your con…

Depends on how these filters are configured. Again, I just want something that blocks mischievous ads and lets everything else in.

I don't know whether Google will achieve this but I am willing to give it a try.

To be honest, I am disillusioned with the extensions I have tried that seem all lacking because they are only here to support a racket like business model where you pay to get whitelisted.

Re: An update on Better Ads (Chrome native ad-blocking)

#57

Post by Dylan16807 »

namelost wrote: post #48
on_and_off wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be the only one here but I have been waiting for a long time for something similar to what Google is attempting to do here. I don't want to block ALL ads. Only the annoying ones (mostly popup and popunder). I am ok with being displayed ads by defaults for the sites I consult (especially the ones I like) since it is an acceptable form of micropayment (I should mention that I don't see ads no youtube since I pa…

No matter how benign an ad looks , it is probably still loading a ton of javascript from dubious places. Ads are a perfect distribution system for malware, and the best strategy is to just disable the whole thing as comprehensively as possible. I'd rather my favourite website goes offline than my bank account gets hacked.

I could see us getting to a place where ad networks that allow third party javascript are blocked. That's probably enough to deal with most malware worries, even if it's not perfect.

Re: An update on Better Ads (Chrome native ad-blocking)

#58

Post by scarface74 »

dedalus wrote: post #45
phil248 wrote: post #40

At this point, I'm dealing with so many pop-ups asking me to turn off my ad-blocker that the original purpose of the ad-blocker (don't bother me) is becoming moot. If this effort by Google can somehow raise the quality of online ads from horrendous to just terrible, I'll reluctantly support it.

>If this effort by Google can somehow raise the quality of online ads from horrendous to just terrible, I'll reluctantly support it I think the rationale for this move is to stem the growth of adblockers rather than anything else. Google Chrome on Mobile does not allow any extension so thats safe for their monetization. Its only on desktop which is dwindling and they are using this opportunity to make sure this is co…

Only on Android does this save Google. iOS has had the ability to install content blockers for a few years. They not only work in the browser but also the newer embedded Web Views (WebViewController?)

Re: An update on Better Ads (Chrome native ad-blocking)

#59

Post by kodablah »

on_and_off wrote: post #56
kodablah wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused. You used an example of not realizing you were blocking ads from a site to support a less transparent blocking approach? Why can't you just take the list from this better-ads program and use it in your extension? (And if you can't, think about why you can't) I can't figure out whether your problem is with the current crop of extensions or the filter lists. Regardless of which it is, I'm not sure your con…

Depends on how these filters are configured. Again, I just want something that blocks mischievous ads and lets everything else in. I don't know whether Google will achieve this but I am willing to give it a try. To be honest, I am disillusioned with the extensions I have tried that seem all lacking because they are only here to support a racket like business model where you pay to get whitelisted.

> Depends on how these filters are configured.

What I'm saying is you probably can't configure them to your liking. Otherwise, they'd just give us a filter list for our existing extensions. Do you support hidden lists over visible ones?

> To be honest, I am disillusioned with the extensions I have tried that seem all lacking because they are only here to support a racket like business model where you pay to get whitelisted.

The most popular among tech circles, uBlock Origin, does not suffer from this. I am disappointed that you only tried ones that are corruptible and then had those experiences lead you to look forward to a more opaque solution by an ad company. Yet I fear this is why Google will succeed.

Re: An update on Better Ads (Chrome native ad-blocking)

#60

Post by kodablah »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #51
kodablah wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> especially obnoxious ads, of the kind adsense doesn't do. That's your opinion, not everyone's. Luckily I'll easily be able to use what meets my definition of obnoxious with this feature (i.e. custom lists for this native blocker) instead of yours or this consortium's, right?

I'm interested to hear your definition of "especially obnoxious" ads that fits adsense. And no, "all ads" doesn't count. Unless adsense has gotten worse since I last looked? I don't pay a whole lot of attention to the advertising space.

> And no, "all ads" doesn't count

Says who? You? Google? A consortium of advertising companies?

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