Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#141

Post by gaius » Tue, Dec 26, 2017, 7:32 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #75

valuearb wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get a new iPhone every 2-3 years. This year I spent $10 a month extra to get the best possible screen and camera on a device I use hours every day. Not because it’s a status symbol. And very happy with my purchase.

I work out of my house. I rarely go out in public (perhaps once a week to the store,) and I couldn’t possibly care less if people see my phone. I see my phone hours a day. I take a lot of photos, read a lot of ebooks and do a ton of stuff on my phone. My X purchase has zero to do with “status symbol.” It’s a childish and ridiculous assertion that “status symbol” is a primary motivator for a phone. A car on the other…

My X purchase has zero to do with “status symbol.”

Then it's interesting that you felt the urge to post about it - are you absolutely sure your motivations are what you think they are?

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#142

Post by jrs95 » Tue, Dec 26, 2017, 7:41 PM UTC

nugi wrote: post #98

Its a luxury, disposable income signalling device. I don't know many tech savvy people with iphones of any kind anymore. Its clearly image and exclusivity driving sales, not features. I think many people see apple as a luxury brand more than a technology company now. Which might be better than the alternative. 'Anyone' can create tech, it takes years and billions to create a valuable brand.

This is bullshit. I just switched back from Android to an iPhone X and I'm loving it. More than half of the software engineers I work with have iPhones. None of us seem to be particularly interested in 'image and exclusivity'.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#143

Post by reaperducer » Tue, Dec 26, 2017, 7:43 PM UTC

Joeri wrote: post #87

The iphone X is very overpriced when viewed as a utility object, because it doesn’t provide 4x the utility of a $250 phone. But it is very reasonable when viewed as a fashion accessory. A $1000 phone to go inside a $2000 purse is not crazy at all. People keep looking at apple as a tech company and struggling to understand them, but if you view them as a luxury/fashion company who happens to specialize in technology t…

Watching TV last night, I saw three ads for phones. One for the $1k iPhone, the other two for competitors, each of which in the fine print listed starting prices of $949.

There's a market. Don't hate Apple because it went there first.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#144

Post by stcredzero » Tue, Dec 26, 2017, 7:46 PM UTC

EpicEng wrote: post #123

scarface74 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sustain the volume at what level? All indications are that Apple makes less profit on the iPhone X than the other phones. Apple would be quite happy if someone bought any iPhone that they sell from the 6s to the 8s Plus 256GB. I'm purposefully excluding the SE. I think that probably has a lower profit margin. And how is it overpriced ? There is no such thing as an overpriced item in a free market as long as the quant…

>There is no such thing as an overpriced item in a free market as long as the quantity that Apple can make in a given time period matches the quantity people are willing to buy. That's the market perspective, but there's a value perspective as well. For example, my kid loves blind bags (no more youtube I think...) These companies want to sell him $0.05 plastic dolls for $5 and they prey on his gambling response to do…

That's the market perspective, but there's a value perspective as well.

Entire libraries have been written about and many, many careers have been based upon the notion of "the value of something." It's actually a very, very complex idea. The minuscule mass-energy of the electrons and photons oscillating in various wires and fiber optic cables to bring these words to you have virtually zero market value as individual particles. However, the same quantity of mass-energy could just as well be worth $1000 or $10000 as a different arrangement of mass-energy forming a digital transfer of money. (Not blockchain, as that's a bit heavyweight, but one of many different forms of value transfer.)

"Why are things worth what they're worth?" is the same order of complexity as "Why do things fall?" Your layman's dismissal of value is something like a medieval peasant dismissing the question of why an apple falls from a tree as an idiot's question. It's not. It's Issac Newton's question. If you ask such a question and you look underneath the surface, there's an entire world of complexity unto itself there.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#145

Post by jrs95 » Tue, Dec 26, 2017, 7:48 PM UTC

Joeri wrote: post #87

The iphone X is very overpriced when viewed as a utility object, because it doesn’t provide 4x the utility of a $250 phone. But it is very reasonable when viewed as a fashion accessory. A $1000 phone to go inside a $2000 purse is not crazy at all. People keep looking at apple as a tech company and struggling to understand them, but if you view them as a luxury/fashion company who happens to specialize in technology t…

It doesn't necessarily need to be a fashion accessory to justify that price. You're not just getting aesthetics for the money, you're getting performance, battery life, display quality, etc. I'm using my phone a lot on a daily basis, so it's worth paying a bit more to get the best available. There's nothing functionally different about a $2000 purse.

Besides, comparing iPhones to purses is basically the same sort of cringe-y argument some Android users have been making for a long time. "iPhones are for basic white girls". What's next, are we going to say the iPhone is the Pumpkin Spice Latte of smartphones?

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#146

Post by snuxoll » Tue, Dec 26, 2017, 7:59 PM UTC

olegkikin wrote: post #113

snuxoll wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does anybody buy an $800 graphics card when it will be obsolete in under two years? Because they plan on dealing with it being outpaced by newer hardware but not by enough to care about upgrading for a generation or two in most cases. This is why I’m still rocking my iPhone 7+, I don’t know if I’ll upgrade to the 9 when it comes out at this point because the phone still runs great - just like I plan on skipping V…

An $800 graphics card has an immediate use case: high FPS for games at high resolutions and high settings. Which is very important in competitive gaming, for instance. I don't see such a use case for a $1000 smartphone. What important task does it solve that a $300-400 phone doesn't? A slightly better camera, slightly smoother scrolling, slightly faster web page rendering. None of that impresses me in the slightest,…

Camera is hugely important to me, as is web browsing performance - the two tasks I use my phone most heavily for. In fact, these are the only two reasons I jumped from my iPhone 6+ to the 7+. You can find a decent phone for $400 these days, but there's always tradeoffs and I'm not willing to compromise (and to be honest, I have an investment in the Apple ecosystem, so unless I plan on figuring out an entirely new workflow there's not much choice for $400 phones right now).

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#147

Post by jsjohnst » Tue, Dec 26, 2017, 8:02 PM UTC

alyxmxe wrote: post #56

jsjohnst wrote: post #27

I wonder if these analysts actually get out in the world or just sit in cubicles closed off from the real world. Traveling this holiday season, I saw the characteristic notch all over the place. Rural areas of flyover country included, saw them everywhere. In the month prior while in NYC, I saw them being used by folks of virtually every division of socio-economic background. I’ve not traveled internationally yet sin…

I've been in NYC, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Singapore, SF, Los Angeles over the past few months. Haven't seen a single iPhone X yet.

Well they’ve only been available for a bit over a month now, but either way, if you’ve not seen one, you are simply staring at your phone or have blinders on. Seriously, SF not seeing one!?

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#148

Post by reaperducer » Tue, Dec 26, 2017, 8:15 PM UTC

chewz wrote: post #2

iPhones are technological marvels, masterpieces of engineering. But Apple software is getting worse and worse. I have recently started playing with my Mom’s phone which is some cheap Huawei Android and surprise - I can do the same on this phone as on iPhone - Google Maps, Google Photos, Google Inbox, Google Search, Google Allo, Google Drive, Firefox, bank applications, Spotify, MS Outlook - everything works OK. The f…

>I can have the same functionality for 100 - 200$

Because the $1,000 iPhone and a $100 Android don't have the same functionality.

Because you require a very small, Google-centric toolkit means that a $100 phone is a good fit for you. But there's a few billion other people on the planet, and some of them have different needs, wants, and desires.

But feel free to continue patting yourself on the back in public for your lifestyle choices, if that makes you feel better. Not everyone finds nobility in frugality.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#149

Post by EpicEng » Tue, Dec 26, 2017, 8:19 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #144

EpicEng wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is no such thing as an overpriced item in a free market as long as the quantity that Apple can make in a given time period matches the quantity people are willing to buy. That's the market perspective, but there's a value perspective as well. For example, my kid loves blind bags (no more youtube I think...) These companies want to sell him $0.05 plastic dolls for $5 and they prey on his gambling response to do…

That's the market perspective, but there's a value perspective as well. Entire libraries have been written about and many, many careers have been based upon the notion of "the value of something." It's actually a very, very complex idea. The minuscule mass-energy of the electrons and photons oscillating in various wires and fiber optic cables to bring these words to you have virtually zero market value as individual…

>"Why are things worth what they're worth?" is the same order of complexity as "Why do things fall?" Your layman's dismissal of value is something like a medieval peasant dismissing the question of why an apple falls from a tree as an idiot's question.

I don't think anything you just said is relevant to what I said here. All that I said is that there is a notion of value which is not simply "what the market will bear". Value means different things to different people at different times. As you said; it's complex.

There are items with inherent value, like gold. It's value is inherent because of how we use it (electronics, jewelry), but that doesn't change the fact that there is real value in gold. That's not the same as someone wanting to make a fashion statement, and I think your electron comparison is so simplistic and absurd as to not be useful in any way. Yes, everything in the universe is comprised of the fundamental building blocks of matter. Great insight here, how about we discuss this in a practical way?

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#150

Post by reaperducer » Tue, Dec 26, 2017, 8:22 PM UTC

chewz wrote: post #6

thisacctforreal wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some areas iPhones excel in: - LTS Updates - HW quality - Relatively consistent UX elements - Foolproof-ish App store - Less features ie no App drawer, just homescreens - Forefront of security & privacy technology The 5s was released Oct 2013, and still received iOS 11. It was also the first(?) phone with a Secure-Enclave device for fingerprint reading. If iOS doesn't limit your glass-brick usage patterns, it's a ver…

I agree on hardware quality. Security to me seems like a sales pitch - Apple is just as sensitive information greedy as Google. And I deal in this area with Google as well as I do with Apple. But the inferior software quality is terrible drag for Apple. Photos - their syncing with iCloud is out of control. There are bugs that haven’t been eliminated for years. I gave up when after deleting 50 GB of RAW photos Apple r…

I'll give you a couple here. You're right that Apple Maps is still streets behind Google Maps. Apple Mail should be better than it is, but Apple seems to be only interested in providing a bare-bones mail experience and leaving the fancy stuff to third-parties. And I just can get my brain around Apple Music, either.

The rest of it is either outdated or wildly inaccurate.

I have to use Android phones for work (one Sony, one LG), but I have an iPhone for personal use. I can tell you from daily use of both, the majority of iPhone software is vastly superior.

And you really need to stop spouting that line about Apple collecting information like Google. Anyone who knows anything about IT privacy knows that's wrong, and it just undermines your credibility.