Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#131

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Dec 26, 2017, 6:20 PM UTC

orf wrote: post #93

lostlogin wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s terrible because any difference between carrier prices is a large multiple of what the sticker/brochure says. Most plans here (New Zealand) are over 2 years, so any difference in price is 24x greater at the end of the contract. And no one here is paid per month, that’s seen as completely antiquated and they are paid per week or per fortnight.

Really? Nobody is paid per month? Coming from the UK that is unexpected. Are jobs wages advertised per week? What are the real advantages? Surely it's a bit harder to pay for larger purchases as it requires more controlled saving and spending?

[deleted]

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#132

Post by valuearb » Tue, Dec 26, 2017, 6:21 PM UTC

dkrich wrote: post #108

briandear wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work out of my house. I rarely go out in public (perhaps once a week to the store,) and I couldn’t possibly care less if people see my phone. I see my phone hours a day. I take a lot of photos, read a lot of ebooks and do a ton of stuff on my phone. My X purchase has zero to do with “status symbol.” It’s a childish and ridiculous assertion that “status symbol” is a primary motivator for a phone. A car on the other…

I’m sure you got yours because you genuinely like the product. That doesn’t make the assertion that lots of people’s motivations for owning one because it’s a status symbol childish. And I’m sure those people would deny that’s the reason, too. Would lots of people admit that they bought BMWs to impress other people? What I saw on launch were lots and lots of people Tweeting and posting about having placed orders and…

"lots" of people is often used to justify lots of anecdotes. Apple didn't sell tens of millions of iPhone X's because it's a status symbol. There aren't millions of unwrapping photos and videos.

A big reason is that in a case it's hard to tell which phone you have, I've yet to have anyone notice I've got an iPhone X.

The iPhone X offers significant enhancements over an iPhone 8 and 8 plus. The difference in cost is relatively minor when amortized it over your ownership life-time. For some people, like my wife, it's still not worth it (esp. if you prefer TouchID). For me it was.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#133

Post by baddox » Tue, Dec 26, 2017, 6:21 PM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #90

baddox wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that a terrible way to think about prices? Most people earn money at a predictable rate per month, so it’s perfectly reasonable to talk about these phone payment plans in the same terms. Obviously this isn’t true for things like credit card or mortgage payments, where interest is likely a significant factor, but AFAIK these cell phone payment plans are interest free.

It's an intellectually dishonest way to de-emphasise how much it costs in total by showing you the smaller monthly amount. You are basically using a marketing trick on yourself to justify the money spent.

But the commenter actually is paying the smaller monthly amount, which probably is easier to afford than paying the entire price upfront. It should sound like a bunch of smaller payments instead of one large payment, because it truly is that.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#134

Post by beachy » Tue, Dec 26, 2017, 6:22 PM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #86

baddox wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that a terrible way to think about prices? Most people earn money at a predictable rate per month, so it’s perfectly reasonable to talk about these phone payment plans in the same terms. Obviously this isn’t true for things like credit card or mortgage payments, where interest is likely a significant factor, but AFAIK these cell phone payment plans are interest free.

It’s terrible because any difference between carrier prices is a large multiple of what the sticker/brochure says. Most plans here (New Zealand) are over 2 years, so any difference in price is 24x greater at the end of the contract. And no one here is paid per month, that’s seen as completely antiquated and they are paid per week or per fortnight.

I live in NZ and I would have said that virtually every salaried worker is paid monthly.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#135

Post by baddox » Tue, Dec 26, 2017, 6:24 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #95

michaelmrose wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an intellectually dishonest way to de-emphasise how much it costs in total by showing you the smaller monthly amount. You are basically using a marketing trick on yourself to justify the money spent.

It also hides the opportunity cost. $10/month doesn't sound like much, but $400 could buy something else nice.

But the opportunity cost is also $10 a month for however many months the plan runs. It would be appropriate to think of other monthly payments with the same opportunity cost (like a Netflix subscription), but it would be inappropriate to talk about things that cost $400 up front without also recognizing that you wouldn’t get those things until the end of the payment period.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#136

Post by baddox » Tue, Dec 26, 2017, 6:28 PM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #90

baddox wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that a terrible way to think about prices? Most people earn money at a predictable rate per month, so it’s perfectly reasonable to talk about these phone payment plans in the same terms. Obviously this isn’t true for things like credit card or mortgage payments, where interest is likely a significant factor, but AFAIK these cell phone payment plans are interest free.

It's an intellectually dishonest way to de-emphasise how much it costs in total by showing you the smaller monthly amount. You are basically using a marketing trick on yourself to justify the money spent.

Also, it’s not a marketing trick. Time value of money isn’t just some silly irrational psychological problem that marketers exploit. It’s a perfectly rational and useful phenomenon. The entire cost of an iPhone right now “feels like” a lot more than the cost split up into small monthly payments, because it truly is a lot more, by any reasonable theory of value.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#137

Post by scarface74 » Tue, Dec 26, 2017, 6:29 PM UTC

EpicEng wrote: post #123

scarface74 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sustain the volume at what level? All indications are that Apple makes less profit on the iPhone X than the other phones. Apple would be quite happy if someone bought any iPhone that they sell from the 6s to the 8s Plus 256GB. I'm purposefully excluding the SE. I think that probably has a lower profit margin. And how is it overpriced ? There is no such thing as an overpriced item in a free market as long as the quant…

>There is no such thing as an overpriced item in a free market as long as the quantity that Apple can make in a given time period matches the quantity people are willing to buy. That's the market perspective, but there's a value perspective as well. For example, my kid loves blind bags (no more youtube I think...) These companies want to sell him $0.05 plastic dolls for $5 and they prey on his gambling response to do…

In the aggregate, "the value perspective", is how many people value the product enough to pay Apple's asking price. If the value perspective isn't enough to sell the number of phones Apple can make, then Apple would lower the price.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#138

Post by c0nducktr » Tue, Dec 26, 2017, 6:36 PM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #90

baddox wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that a terrible way to think about prices? Most people earn money at a predictable rate per month, so it’s perfectly reasonable to talk about these phone payment plans in the same terms. Obviously this isn’t true for things like credit card or mortgage payments, where interest is likely a significant factor, but AFAIK these cell phone payment plans are interest free.

It's an intellectually dishonest way to de-emphasise how much it costs in total by showing you the smaller monthly amount. You are basically using a marketing trick on yourself to justify the money spent.

Yeah it sounds just like how car salesmen try to talk you into buying a car you cannot afford.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#139

Post by valuearb » Tue, Dec 26, 2017, 6:43 PM UTC

c0nducktr wrote: post #138

michaelmrose wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an intellectually dishonest way to de-emphasise how much it costs in total by showing you the smaller monthly amount. You are basically using a marketing trick on yourself to justify the money spent.

Yeah it sounds just like how car salesmen try to talk you into buying a car you cannot afford.

It is, but it's also the most accurate way to view your actual costs. You understand it can be both, correct?

In the case of your car, what benefits are there to the more expensive model? My iPhone X, those benefits are easy to describe, better screen, better camera, faster, better form factor. Amortizing to compare the relative cost between it an iPhone 8 and seeing that it's roughly $10 a month allows me to make an informed decision about whether those benefits are worth the cost.

In the case of your car purchase, if the car salesman says it's only $200 a month more to get the "better" car, are it's benefits worth that much to you? Is the more expensive car safer, more comfortable, and are those benefits worth $200 a month? How much do you drive a month? Do you commute in rush hour traffic, or drive on the freeway? etc. etc.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#140

Post by CharlesW » Tue, Dec 26, 2017, 6:44 PM UTC

nugi wrote: post #98

Its a luxury, disposable income signalling device. I don't know many tech savvy people with iphones of any kind anymore. Its clearly image and exclusivity driving sales, not features. I think many people see apple as a luxury brand more than a technology company now. Which might be better than the alternative. 'Anyone' can create tech, it takes years and billions to create a valuable brand.

> I don't know many tech savvy people with iphones of any kind anymore.

To present alternate anecdata, nearly every tech savvy person I know uses an iPhone, especially those who understand the privacy differences between the Apple and Google ecosystems.