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Shanghai sets population at 25M

theguardian.com

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Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#41

Post by jakubp »

nawitus wrote: post #38
inertial wrote: post #36

Genuinely curious : What's a good alternative to setting a population limit per city ? Having lived in cities that are crumbling under poor infrastructure, unchecked growth, excessive pollution (from vehicles, stuck in endless traffic jams), shortage of water/electricity, I wonder what can be done to fix this. Everyone from across the country wants to migrate to a few big cities that provide good employment. We shoul…

As long as people are migrating, people are voting with their wallets that a city "crumbling under poor infrastructure" etc. is better than whatever place they're migrating from.

But people already in that city can't vote with their wallets to stop the immigration.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#42

Post by jakobegger »

inertial wrote: post #36

Genuinely curious : What's a good alternative to setting a population limit per city ? Having lived in cities that are crumbling under poor infrastructure, unchecked growth, excessive pollution (from vehicles, stuck in endless traffic jams), shortage of water/electricity, I wonder what can be done to fix this. Everyone from across the country wants to migrate to a few big cities that provide good employment. We shoul…

I don't think there are any short term solutions, but there are a lot of medium/long time things you can do.

One policy I have found very interesting is to require developers to "invest" in the neighbourhood in exchange for building permits.

For example, the government could require developers to pay for public infrastructure before they can build (eg. they need to pay a part of a new subway line, or they need to renew the sewer system etc.)

This helps address the problem that there is lots of capital available for building new stuff, but nobody wants to pay for maintenance.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#43

Post by yulaow »

inertial wrote: post #36

Genuinely curious : What's a good alternative to setting a population limit per city ? Having lived in cities that are crumbling under poor infrastructure, unchecked growth, excessive pollution (from vehicles, stuck in endless traffic jams), shortage of water/electricity, I wonder what can be done to fix this. Everyone from across the country wants to migrate to a few big cities that provide good employment. We shoul…

Most people just move to the big cities because there there are the jobs which pay better (and the chance to hop between them in case of being fired, without having to relocate)

A good start could be just to make remote all the jobs that can be made remote, but of course this would not cover a big part of jobs which need a whole team in the same location and specialized machinery (Eg the whole manufacturing sector)

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#44

Post by VeejayRampay »

adventured wrote: post #28
VeejayRampay wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you seriously think politicians in the "West" (whatever that means) are not corrupt? Have you followed the news in the past say 20 years?

You're setting up a fake strawman that the parent comment never suggested at all. In no regard did the parent say that politicians in the West are not or are never corrupt, nor did they imply it. They said China's government is corrupt to the core.

The parent did mention that "in the West" individual liberty is more important than mass control without providing any evidence to back it up. Then proceeded to mention how corrupt the Chinese government is. It is true that they never say that the governments in the West are not corrupt, but by setting up the main point like that, it sure looks like trying to mirror the corruption and mass control in China with the individual liberty of the West, which seems a lot like whitewashing to me.

There is mass control and corruption in the West, it just takes a less obvious form.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#45

Post by peteretep »

inertial wrote: post #36

Genuinely curious : What's a good alternative to setting a population limit per city ? Having lived in cities that are crumbling under poor infrastructure, unchecked growth, excessive pollution (from vehicles, stuck in endless traffic jams), shortage of water/electricity, I wonder what can be done to fix this. Everyone from across the country wants to migrate to a few big cities that provide good employment. We shoul…

London has a green belt -- an area of land around it which is legally protected. This makes the cost of living in London prohibitive, and limits growth.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#46

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

nawitus wrote: post #38
inertial wrote: post #36

Genuinely curious : What's a good alternative to setting a population limit per city ? Having lived in cities that are crumbling under poor infrastructure, unchecked growth, excessive pollution (from vehicles, stuck in endless traffic jams), shortage of water/electricity, I wonder what can be done to fix this. Everyone from across the country wants to migrate to a few big cities that provide good employment. We shoul…

As long as people are migrating, people are voting with their wallets that a city "crumbling under poor infrastructure" etc. is better than whatever place they're migrating from.

It's better for them individually, and under the current conditions. That doesn't mean that changing the conditions (e.g. by some measure that reduces population of the largest cities) cannot bring a situation where the average person ends up better. In ML terms, the local gradient may be leading you to a local optimum.

By the way, individual people aren't good at all at evaluating invisible, long-term costs like that of pollution and its health risks.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#50

Post by iagooar »

peteretep wrote: post #45
inertial wrote: post #36

Genuinely curious : What's a good alternative to setting a population limit per city ? Having lived in cities that are crumbling under poor infrastructure, unchecked growth, excessive pollution (from vehicles, stuck in endless traffic jams), shortage of water/electricity, I wonder what can be done to fix this. Everyone from across the country wants to migrate to a few big cities that provide good employment. We shoul…

London has a green belt -- an area of land around it which is legally protected. This makes the cost of living in London prohibitive, and limits growth.

What does "legally protected" mean in this context? What makes that land different? Genuinely curious.
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