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Lyft Self-Driving

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Re: Lyft Self-Driving

#121

Post by Someone »

greentrust wrote: post #52
xandar11 wrote: post #29

I'm skeptical about all this. Hubert Horan [1] has done a great job exposing Uber's failed business model in 11 part series on NakedCapitalism ("Can Uber Ever Deliver?"). Same goes for Lyft. When it comes to self driving cars, why should Uber or Lyft have any massive advantage over other players and what makes us think it won't turn into something like an airline industry which has been unprofitable for most of their…

A hypothetical – since flights are relatively expensive, people usually just go for the cheapest option, so airlines race to the bottom and lose profits. With autonomous vehicles the cost of a ride will be very inexpensive–a few dollars probably–so consumers may focus less on cost in favor of brand loyalty, cool cars, etc, leaving room for providers upsell certain services and profit (turning a $4 ride into a $5 isn'…

I’m sure they will try to hide that by offering subscriptions, loyalty cards, better chairs, larger cars, larger monitors, Netflix, faster rides, etc, but the competition will go wherever the demand is and offer that $5 ride for $4.50.

I’m not sure how well they will be able to diversify their product while keeping the economies of scale. If 10% of your customers is willing to pay for more leg space, can you get by with 10% of your fleet being larger cars, or does that affect the waiting times of that 10% too much, and do you need to make most of your cars larger?

Also, if you pay $1 extra per trip on your commute, that’s a nice smartphone each year.

Re: Lyft Self-Driving

#122

Post by sumedh »

lgas wrote: post #116
thisisit wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole thing reminds of Buffett, Charlie Munger and the textile mill machinery story. I need to find the exact link for it though. Here's what I can remember from top of my head: They were offered more "efficient" machinery, which could manufacture more textiles than the old machines. "It will pay for itself" was the pitch. But they refused as more efficient machines meant they had to pass on the savings to the c…

I don't understand why they would have to lower prices just because they bought more efficient machines. That defeats the point (as mentioned) but has two obvious solutions that I can think of: keep prices flat, or raise prices.

They have to lower prices because their competitors buy the same machines and thy pass on the savings to the customers, xo your company needs to do that as well.

That is the problem with commodity business because consumers dont care where there corn or cloth material comes from. Consumers will go for the cheapest option.

Re: Lyft Self-Driving

#123

Post by Someone »

shiftpgdn wrote: post #69
mcny wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do we do when someone pukes in the driverless uber?

Open app, report problem with the vehicle and request something different. Problem vehicle will be taken out of service for review.

I would also put multiple cameras in each car, and train a network on “car is clean” and the related “car is empty” (you could, for example, ask the customer that just left “did you leave your bag in the car?”)

To signal to passengers that you won’t record them during the ride, give the cameras nice red LEDs when in operation, and be open about what you do.

Re: Lyft Self-Driving

#124

Post by bdamm »

petre wrote: post #118
woolvalley wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self driving cars are the mass transit of low-density suburbia. Electric AVs in the next 10 years would be a significantly cheaper solution than remaking US infrastructure & political culture to be more transit friendly. That is why americans are especially excited about them.

What's wrong with having a bus + driver service low density suburbia today, than a number of self driving cars? Even a minibus.

Far too expensive to operate a sufficiently useful transit system for insufficient ridership to support it. The density does not allow the economics to work out.

Re: Lyft Self-Driving

#125

Post by vostrocity »

petre wrote: post #118
woolvalley wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self driving cars are the mass transit of low-density suburbia. Electric AVs in the next 10 years would be a significantly cheaper solution than remaking US infrastructure & political culture to be more transit friendly. That is why americans are especially excited about them.

What's wrong with having a bus + driver service low density suburbia today, than a number of self driving cars? Even a minibus.

Busses don't get cleaned often, lack modern creature comforts like leather surfaces and music, have distractingly bad noise/vibration/harshness, etc.

Re: Lyft Self-Driving

#126

Post by bdamm »

losteric wrote: post #105
sandworm101 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And anyone with more than a handbag to carry. Many workers travel with tools. Im going to training next month and have to bring about 80lbs of various stuff with me. Hauling that in and out of busses, not to mention finding places to secure it while i sleep/eat, wouldnt be much fun. But it all fits in my car nicely. And no, i cannot send it by courier.

What kind of tools? Is there a functional reason for lugging your tools back and forth, or is that just how it's done? Could you leave those tools at work/training if they had secure storage? Alternatively, could the training facility offer a set of training tools while you keep your personal set at home for training?

You clearly don’t do much work involving hand tools. The reasons to carry a portable tool locker on wheels are too numerous to mention. One, your locker, your key; theft is a major problem among contractor sites.

Re: Lyft Self-Driving

#127

Post by sitepodmatt »

Someone wrote: post #121
greentrust wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A hypothetical – since flights are relatively expensive, people usually just go for the cheapest option, so airlines race to the bottom and lose profits. With autonomous vehicles the cost of a ride will be very inexpensive–a few dollars probably–so consumers may focus less on cost in favor of brand loyalty, cool cars, etc, leaving room for providers upsell certain services and profit (turning a $4 ride into a $5 isn'…

I’m sure they will try to hide that by offering subscriptions, loyalty cards, better chairs, larger cars, larger monitors, Netflix, faster rides, etc, but the competition will go wherever the demand is and offer that $5 ride for $4.50. I’m not sure how well they will be able to diversify their product while keeping the economies of scale. If 10% of your customers is willing to pay for more leg space, can you get by w…

You would travel in reduced comfort for a year, however small the difference, to get the latest samsung/iphone?

Re: Lyft Self-Driving

#128

Post by dotancohen »

vostrocity wrote: post #125
petre wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with having a bus + driver service low density suburbia today, than a number of self driving cars? Even a minibus.

Busses don't get cleaned often, lack modern creature comforts like leather surfaces and music, have distractingly bad noise/vibration/harshness, etc.

All of those concerns are much more easily addressed individually than by developing a vehicle that drives itself. There is no reason why a 14-passenger 8 ton Mercedes minivan could not be used as a small, relatively frequent bus as opposed to the huge, noisy MAN 40 ton chassis.

Re: Lyft Self-Driving

#129

Post by kelnos »

petre wrote: post #118
woolvalley wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self driving cars are the mass transit of low-density suburbia. Electric AVs in the next 10 years would be a significantly cheaper solution than remaking US infrastructure & political culture to be more transit friendly. That is why americans are especially excited about them.

What's wrong with having a bus + driver service low density suburbia today, than a number of self driving cars? Even a minibus.

Usage is low enough and destinations are various and sparse and distant enough that sufficient coverage to be useful would be prohibitively expensive, while incredibly under-utilized. You really need something more on-demand that will take you door-to-door.

Re: Lyft Self-Driving

#130

Post by kelnos »

intopieces wrote: post #113
em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #72

I recently read a couple (long) articles basically arguing that the simple answer to transportation woes is not about self-driving cars and hyperloops, but basic simple steps to make cities more pedestrian friendly and improvements to mass transit: http://www.kevinklinkenberg.com/blog/autonomous-vehicles-a-v... https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2017/12/what-elon-mus... So I tend to not get excited about Lyft/Ube…

America doesn’t want this. We vote against these designs time and time again. Nothing short of China style totalitarian urban restructuring will make US cities walking utopias.

I live in a US city, and I still don't understand why this is the case. It completely baffles me why people would prefer to sit behind the wheel in stop-and-go city traffic, deal with pedestrians, cyclists, traffic lights, one-way streets, and parking, instead of designing and developing the city so everything they need is a short walk or at worst a quick transit ride away. It just seems like madness, like people are deliberately making their lives significantly worse, and they see the effects of that decision literally every day.
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