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What Would It Take to Fix New York’s Subway?

nytimes.com

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Re: What Would It Take to Fix New York’s Subway?

#171

Post by MR4D »

fjsolwmv wrote: post #158
MR4D wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After reading your comment twice, I still can't tell if it's sarcasm or not...

Why would it be sarcastic? NYC area is one of the wealthiest areas in the world, in large part due to the subway. Pay it its due, like Hong Kong does.

Because the parent poster basically is ok with throwing money at it. But that won’t work. Not even close.

The NY Times started this earlier this year:

“Parts of the system are more than a century old; replacing everything would cost upward of a trillion dollars.”

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/22/nyregion/subway-service-m...

Re: What Would It Take to Fix New York’s Subway?

#172

Post by locopati »

beezle wrote: post #163
lloyd-christmas wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living in NYC, I haven't driven a car in 3 years and haven't even renewed my driver license for 2. I still manage to go hiking during summer weekends and skiing during the winter. Accessibility really isn't the issue. I think it's optics more than anything. NYC residents pay a ton in taxes and get little back. Our state taxes get moved upstate and our federal taxes go to poor states. I really think it's just trying t…

Not to be flip, but those who live in the nyc (ny) burbs subsidize your mass transit, as do businesses in the burbs. Though dated, a 2011 Rockefeller Institute study claimed nyc paid out 5% more than it got back to the rest of the state while the burbs paid out 10% more. Per capita, they claimed nyc paid out $34 more while the burbs paid out $311 more). Income based financing schemes almost always fail in nonhomogene…

where do folks in the burbs often work? the city (Manhattan's daytime population is 6m - it's residential population is 1.6m or so)

how do they get around in the city? public transportation

there's no us and them here

Re: What Would It Take to Fix New York’s Subway?

#173

Post by rubicon33 »

danudey wrote: post #117
rubicon33 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same reaction to this article. It's incredible how horrible SF's system is, and yet, the articles are always about New York's subway. If someone did an in depth comparison of the two it would be incredibly eye opening. The system in SF is garbage. Thank god we'll be getting a new mayor.

You'd think with all those SV billions floating around, there would be enough tax dollars to improve the transit infrastructure.

My thoughts exactly.

Re: What Would It Take to Fix New York’s Subway?

#174

Post by chimeracoder »

beezle wrote: post #163
lloyd-christmas wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living in NYC, I haven't driven a car in 3 years and haven't even renewed my driver license for 2. I still manage to go hiking during summer weekends and skiing during the winter. Accessibility really isn't the issue. I think it's optics more than anything. NYC residents pay a ton in taxes and get little back. Our state taxes get moved upstate and our federal taxes go to poor states. I really think it's just trying t…

Not to be flip, but those who live in the nyc (ny) burbs subsidize your mass transit, as do businesses in the burbs. Though dated, a 2011 Rockefeller Institute study claimed nyc paid out 5% more than it got back to the rest of the state while the burbs paid out 10% more. Per capita, they claimed nyc paid out $34 more while the burbs paid out $311 more). Income based financing schemes almost always fail in nonhomogene…

> Not to be flip, but those who live in the nyc (ny) burbs subsidize your mass transit, as do businesses in the burbs.

The MTA spends a disproportionate amount of money on the MetroNorth and LIRR, compared to its ridership. In terms of mass transit specifically, it's the city that's subsidizing the suburbs, not the other way around.

Re: What Would It Take to Fix New York’s Subway?

#175

Post by acranox »

MR4D wrote: post #99
acranox wrote: post #98

What would it take to fix the subway? Money of course. Where's it come from? Who cares, just spend it. Transit is necessary. Tax the businesses that benefit from good transit. Raise the gas taxes, because driving is a luxury if you could have taken mass transit. Boston's transit is a mess too. Some of the problems can be fixed just by throwing money at the problem. The Boston subway breaks down all the time because t…

After reading your comment twice, I still can't tell if it's sarcasm or not...

It’s not sarcasm.

Re: What Would It Take to Fix New York’s Subway?

#176

Post by acranox »

MR4D wrote: post #171
fjsolwmv wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be sarcastic? NYC area is one of the wealthiest areas in the world, in large part due to the subway. Pay it its due, like Hong Kong does.

Because the parent poster basically is ok with throwing money at it. But that won’t work. Not even close. The NY Times started this earlier this year: “Parts of the system are more than a century old; replacing everything would cost upward of a trillion dollars.” Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/22/nyregion/subway-service-m...

You don’t need to replace everything. You can fix things. It’s probably billions still, but I still say the money should be spent. Even if it’s hundreds of billions over the new couple decades, spend the money, fix the subways. Start with essentials. Then continue maintenance while doing simultaneous improvements.

Let’s be clear, if you don’t spend money you definitely can’t fix the problem. Will only money fix it ? No, but if you need to change management, change expectations, change schedules, do that. All that will cost money as will buying new cars and new signal systems and hiring crews to install the signal systems. What’s needed to fix the system is a lot of changes and they will all cost money. But the reason the changes haven’t happened is due to money. Boston’s system has certainly suffered from lack of money. Sure they have billions, but it isn’t enough.

If you don’t have enough maintenance people to do the work, that is still a money problem. If you pay more for that job, more people will want to do that job, and then you can hire people to staff the positions correctly. It might take a few years for the next generation to come into the workforce, but I believe it can be done.

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