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Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

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Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#132

Post by nl »

tzs wrote: post #16
squidsoup wrote: post #5

This article is a bit light on detail - can anyone explain how the development of Android infringes on Oracle's IP?

If they were talking about Oracle's patents, it would make sense. It's the talk of it being copyright infringement that has me confused. Android is basically, as far as I've read, a Linux kernel, with Google's own user space on top of that--their own equivalent of libc and their own windowing system. On top of that, they run their own JVM, which they wrote themselves and which is NOT even compatible with Oracle's at…

If you read the complaint itself (http://www.scribd.com/doc/35811761/Oracle-s-complaint-agains...) it becomes clearer - see Count 8, copyright infringement: The Java platform contains a substantial amount of original material (including without limitation code, specifications, documentation and other materials) that is copyrightable subject matter under the Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C.

so because the Android platform APIs also include the Java APIs Oracle thinks there is a case. I'm not aware of any precedents that would indicate the likelyhood of this succeeding, but its possible there could be a problem here.

Note that http://developer.android.com/reference/packages.html contains the java.* API's, and in the past Sun was pretty strict about companies not hosting that Javadoc itself publicly (eg, they stopped one site that was building interlinked Javadoc references).

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#133

Post by recoil »

bconway wrote: post #22
bitsai wrote: post #14

What implications, if any, does this have for the future of JVM languages like Scala, Clojure, etc.?

Seconded. If Oracle is going to turn Java into a minefield, it's going to have big repercussions in future uptake.

I think this is much bigger than just Java. The patents in question relate to the whole field of VM implementation, not simply Java VM implementation. On the surface this really appears to have very little to do with Java the language.

For a start, Dalvik is not a JVM implementation at all, in fact it's quite a different beast. See, e.g.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_application_virtu... which lists Dalvik as a register machine rather than a stack machine: definitely not a trivial difference.

Google's toolchain converts from JVM bytecode to Dalvik bytecode, which is probably what Oracle are going after with #5,966,702 but the rest of the patents are much more general. If anything Oracle are turning VM implementation in general into a patent minefield, not Java alone.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#134

Post by nostrademons »

dminor wrote: post #112

Google's an engineering company and I think they should fight back as such. Get together a team of your best and brightest, take Postgres, and turn it into a drop-in replacement for Oracle. And be very public about your efforts.

More likely, they find a few dozen patents that they own that Oracle is infringing, and turn around and counter-sue.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#135

Post by nl »

tzs wrote: post #10

Google should switch to C# and Mono. Besides giving them a better language and VM, it would cause the most amusing set of rants from the anti-Mono crowd. Win/win.

C# might be a better language than Java, but the JVM is hugely better than the Mono VM.

Anyway, Google isn't using the JVM in Android - they use Dalvik.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#136

Post by bhiggins »

Timothee wrote: post #83
gahahaha wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is just trying to save /more/ children in Africa. http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB10001424052748704... Larry Ellison is a saint! ... and an asshole.

The letter he wrote for the Giving Pledge website actually shows a bit of him being a saint and an asshole: http://givingpledge.org/#larry_ellison To whom it may concern, Many years ago, I put virtually all of my assets into a trust with the intent of giving away at least 95% of my wealth to charitable causes. I have already given hundreds of millions of dollars to medical research and education, and I will give bill…

That's actually pretty rad.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#137

Post by extension »

zmmmmm wrote: post #116
jarin wrote: post #54

The headline should read "Oracle sues Google over literally the only thing keeping Java relevant".

I don't necessarily agree about relevance, but I do find it quite mind boggling that Oracle would strike out against what is clearly a massive growth opportunity for Java. If they want to destroy the Java brand the fastest way possible then definitely the right thing to do is start suing people who are using Java. The million dollar question is why would anybody in their right mind do this?

What good is Java to them if they can't control it? They don't have a monopoly on expertise.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#138

Post by arman0 »

dminor wrote: post #112

Google's an engineering company and I think they should fight back as such. Get together a team of your best and brightest, take Postgres, and turn it into a drop-in replacement for Oracle. And be very public about your efforts.

EnterpriseDB is essentially an Oracle-compatible PostgreSQL. Unfortunately, however, its not open source. I guess Google can buy them and open source their software just to piss off Oracle.
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