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Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

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Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#101
It seems like defending against software patent claims are a cost of doing anything interesting now days. Create a novel, popular platform or tool, and someone somewhere will probably sue you over infringing on their patents. Google can probably dig into its mountain of cash and come out OK, but the precedent is chilling to smaller companies.

It's also ironic that it's Dalvik that got hit, given the amount of anti-Microsoft hysteria that has surrounded the Mono project.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#103
post #44
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careful. The name of a title and its actual claims are two very different things.

Well, here's claim 1: In a computer system, a method for increasing the execution speed of virtual machine instructions, the method comprising: - inputting virtual machine instructions for a function; - compiling a portion of the function into at least one native machine instruction so that the function includes both virtual and native machine instruction; and - overwriting a selected virtual machine instruction of t…

It sounds like the sort of stuff that Smalltalk implementations were doing before Java existed. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-in-time_compilation#Histor... for more. (I wonder whether Sun's patents were filed for Self?)

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#104
post #14

What implications, if any, does this have for the future of JVM languages like Scala, Clojure, etc.?

Good question. It's got to cast a bit of a shadow over anything based on the VM. This seems like a catastrophically stupid and short-sighted move on Oracle's part. The reason Java is as big as it is today is that it's been an open playing field for all comers. Start tossing the odd hand grenade into the party and the room is going to clear out fast. The timing could hardly be worse too - Scala and Clojure seem to be…

I disagree. Java ME is already dead, so there's nothing left to kill. Server-side Java is all properly licensed, so I don't see a problem there.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#105
post #81
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to understand that Android doesn't use Oracle's open-source OpenJDK. An argument could be made that Oracle licenses the necessary patents only for OpenJDK and not for alternate implementations such as Dalvik. An argument could be made that Oracle licenses patents only for JVMs that are TCK-compliant, which Dalvik isn't. An argument could be made that Oracle licenses patents for GPLed JVMs but not for A…

Thanks, it naively hadn't occurred to me that Android would be using a non-Sun JVM, and given what you've said it seems that would be a viable route for an IP lawsuit (though it still seems in pretty bad faith).

Dalvik would be better if Google had just licensed Oracle's Sun JVM or used the open source version. As an occasional Android developer I am constantly banging against the limitations and performance of Dalvik.

It doesn't do memory management nearly as well as the JVM, and it handles dynamic dispatch and one-off closure hacks (local classes) slowly. It won't easily accept generated bytecodes. It has mysterious performance headaches (mostly memory management related I think).

I'd prefer that Oracle go to heck with these bogus patents for the health of the industry but Google should have just cooperated from the start.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#106
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is just trying to save /more/ children in Africa. http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB10001424052748704... Larry Ellison is a saint! ... and an asshole.

The letter he wrote for the Giving Pledge website actually shows a bit of him being a saint and an asshole: http://givingpledge.org/#larry_ellison To whom it may concern, Many years ago, I put virtually all of my assets into a trust with the intent of giving away at least 95% of my wealth to charitable causes. I have already given hundreds of millions of dollars to medical research and education, and I will give bill…

My take on the letter is that he really doesn't like Buffet trying to push him around. I can understand wanting to give quietly; that is how I would prefer to give.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#107

The biggest issue for Oracle is that Sun's previous CEO publicly congratulated Google about Android: http://beust.com/weblog/2010/08/12/oracle-is-suing-google-ov... Good luck defending your trademark after the CEO declares it's not really interested in doing so.

Intellectual property divides into 3 fields with 3 different sets of rules. Anything you learn about how copyrights, trademarks and patents work is more likely than not to be wrong about the other two.

You're thinking trademark law. This lawsuit is under patent law. It doesn't matter what Jonathan Schwartz publicly said.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure the Mono people are worried. These patents are things that are fairly fundamental and important to any sort of mobile device that has competent security.

No I'm pretty sure they aren't. The CLR is totally different to the JVM.

I would say it is about as different as Dalvik is.
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