Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

marketwatch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 345 posts

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#21

Post by tptacek »

kingkilr wrote: post #20
cscotta wrote: post #7

The biggest issue I see with Oracle's lawsuit is not with Android itself, but the future of Java as an open platform. The claims are pretty serious, and Oracle is going straight for the jugular. It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out, but I've got to hope that Google will come out of this in good shape for the sake of Java. It's unfortunate that Oracle is interpreting Google's implementation of Dalvik and a Ja…

> Interpreting functions utilizing a hybrid of virtual and native machine instructions Are they serious? Unless I'm missing something this is a fantastic joke, JITs far predate Java.

Careful. The name of a title and its actual claims are two very different things.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#24

Post by michaelfairley »

bitsai wrote: post #14

What implications, if any, does this have for the future of JVM languages like Scala, Clojure, etc.?

It looks like the patents that Oracle is claiming are being infringed upon focus on the actual JVM itself, not on the code run on it. Google making their own JVM is what's brought them into the crosshairs.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#25

Post by wmf »

seldo wrote: post #6

Excuse the really really obvious question, but how can you sue somebody for intellectual property infringement on open-source software? Didn't you already give anybody the license to do what they wanted with it? If they've violated the license terms in some way, isn't that different from IP infringement?

It's important to understand that Android doesn't use Oracle's open-source OpenJDK. An argument could be made that Oracle licenses the necessary patents only for OpenJDK and not for alternate implementations such as Dalvik. An argument could be made that Oracle licenses patents only for JVMs that are TCK-compliant, which Dalvik isn't. An argument could be made that Oracle licenses patents for GPLed JVMs but not for ASL-licensed JVMs (because ASL is "too free" perhaps?)

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#28

Post by tzs »

tptacek wrote: post #11
seldo wrote: post #6

Excuse the really really obvious question, but how can you sue somebody for intellectual property infringement on open-source software? Didn't you already give anybody the license to do what they wanted with it? If they've violated the license terms in some way, isn't that different from IP infringement?

Of course you can. There'd be no such thing as an enforceable software patent if any company could just sponsor an open source project to implement each part of its product that infringed a patent. Presumably --- hopefully 'grellas will clear this up --- Oracle can measure damages incurred by Google supplanting Sun/Oracle Java with their own Java in terms of percentage points of global smartphone revenue. Here's some…

I think you slightly misinterpreted Seldo's point. I think what he's getting at is that Java was made open source by Sun. At the very least I'd say that raises some kind of estoppel defense against any alleged infringement of Sun patents.

Patent owners can't just go around encouraging people to infringe, and then come back later and sue.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#29

Post by sorbus »

tptacek wrote: post #11
seldo wrote: post #6

Excuse the really really obvious question, but how can you sue somebody for intellectual property infringement on open-source software? Didn't you already give anybody the license to do what they wanted with it? If they've violated the license terms in some way, isn't that different from IP infringement?

Of course you can. There'd be no such thing as an enforceable software patent if any company could just sponsor an open source project to implement each part of its product that infringed a patent. Presumably --- hopefully 'grellas will clear this up --- Oracle can measure damages incurred by Google supplanting Sun/Oracle Java with their own Java in terms of percentage points of global smartphone revenue. Here's some…

So if I, as a company, release something as open source (licensing the patents[1] with no royalty to anyone who's interested, as long as they follow the rules in the license), then I, as the same company, can turn around and sue anyone who uses it for infringing those same patents?

[1] I assume that when software covered by patents is released as open source, the patents are also implicitly granted as part of the license, because if they weren't no one would be able to use it for anything because they would be infringing on the patents.

The only situation this can possible make sense in is if Google has somehow violated the license, thereby revoking their permission to use the relevant patents and exposing them to litigation.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#30

Post by patrickaljord »

tptacek wrote: post #11
seldo wrote: post #6

Excuse the really really obvious question, but how can you sue somebody for intellectual property infringement on open-source software? Didn't you already give anybody the license to do what they wanted with it? If they've violated the license terms in some way, isn't that different from IP infringement?

Of course you can. There'd be no such thing as an enforceable software patent if any company could just sponsor an open source project to implement each part of its product that infringed a patent. Presumably --- hopefully 'grellas will clear this up --- Oracle can measure damages incurred by Google supplanting Sun/Oracle Java with their own Java in terms of percentage points of global smartphone revenue. Here's some…

Sun licensed Java under the GPL which gives access to all of the patents on Java. But Google uses its own Java, not Sun's GPL licensed one, maybe they should have gone with the GPL instead...
Post reply on HN