How I went from programming to consulting (2012) • Hacker News Board

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#411

Post by putnam » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 11:46 PM UTC

pacomerh wrote: post #355

patio11 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My modal engagement was with a SaaS company with $20 million a year sales, a few dozen employees, and 1~3 very strapped people wearing the marketing hat. “How much email do you send?” “We have a newsletter.” “What else?” “Welcome to free trial email. “What else?” “Nothing.” I write proposal. You should: 1) Have a pre-sales drip campaign positioned as a “free course about X delivered over email” w/ 8 emails arriving o…

If this is what a consultant is I don't want to be one, or maybe this example is very particular to sales/marketing. Or maybe this same example can be applied to several domains meaning that as a consultant you can solve companies problems depending on your already established expertise.

If what is what a consultant is?

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#412

Post by wglb » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 11:52 PM UTC

putnam wrote: post #2

I have an Internet buddy in Chicago named Thomas Ptacek. [...] I decided to invite Thomas out to coffee. At the end of the conversation, Thomas said something which, no exaggeration, changed my life. Thomas: Some food for thought: If this hadn't been a coffee date, but rather a consulting engagement, I'd be writing you a check right now. Me: Three hours at $100 an hour or whatever an intermediate programmer is worth…

Yes, it did. I know both of them and have heard the story from both.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#413

Post by notyourday » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 11:55 PM UTC

kleiba wrote: post #57

To this day, I'm still not quite clear about what a consultant actually does. I mean, beyond some vague idea ("goes to some company, talks with people, gives some recommendation"). I'd really love for someone to give some example or describe in a tangible way what the work of a consultant entails, what skills one typically needs and actually employs, what a typical gig looks like from beginning to end and so on. If a…

Provide cover for the executives to do things that may not be liked by employees be that because employees suggested ( but were not convincing enough) those changes early on and the leadership wants to save face, be that because the existing processes used do not work for the next stage of the company but cannot be changed due to how those changes would affect existing business lines or be that because the employees aren't really qualified to perform those changes.

The most important part to realize is that a consultant is a vendor and as such certain policies that the company has may not apply.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#414

Post by blunte » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 11:58 PM UTC

kelvin0 wrote: post #402

blunte wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if he can market that into the success he has now, then his information is probably pretty valuable!

Using that logic you should interview all lottery winners and try to get their expert advice on winning the lotto. Not saying the OP did nothing, but sometimes time and chance cometh to all men.

I think comparing his situation to lottery is reaching a lot; so no, I'll take a pass on interviewing those folks.

What I would do is interview tech employees who figured out how to take their ideas and build entire businesses out of them. Actually this is already provided somewhat in indiehackers.com. Unfortunately, it doesn't always provide useful guidance as much as highlight that right place/right time is still a big factor in success.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#415

Post by qaq » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 11:59 PM UTC

astockwell wrote: post #398

rawnlq wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making the company money is the not the only factor is it? Any engineer at google/facebook/etc are probabilistically making the company multiple millions per year too (terrible estimate from revenue divided by headcount). But probably only a handful of them would ever be able to demand the rate you charge because they are replaceable. How do you make sure the company won't just take your advice and hire a guy to do t…

By far, the majority of consulting engagements I’ve seen or participated in (Big 4 and freelance) are things that could easily be done if the company hired a few folks, for much less pay than this. Simple number crunching, tedious paperwork review, trivial integrations/dev work.. I would hazard a guess that at least 50% of all enterprise consulting spend goes to these tasks. However the indisputable fact is that thes…

There could be a ton of reasons from covering one's behind to how things look on the books etc.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#416

Post by borplk » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 11:59 PM UTC

blunte wrote: post #395

borplk wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A huge huge part of it is just persona, profile, reputation and perception. A fancy consultant with a laundry list of "credentials" will be automatically trusted. When Joe Schmoe developer says the same thing it will be dismissed. You can see a variation of this happen with books, particularly self-help books. A nobody author writes lots of valuable stuff and people flick through it and go mehhh. A famous self-help p…

And the reason for this situation is that frankly, most management really sucks. It's not easy to be a good manager, and I wouldn't claim I would be a good one. (Like most people, I think I would be better than the people I've worked under, but that's irrelevant.) The best thing is just to quit and move to a hopefully better company. Companies with this mentality seldom change for the better.

I think it runs just a bit too deep in the psyche for one to be able to escape it by moving to a different company.

It happens in many contexts even outside of business.

Perhaps you can escape it by making a product like a mobile app or SaaS.

It gives you a curtain to hide behind which consequently allows the judgement to be directed towards the product/service.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#417

Post by blunte » Sun, Dec 24, 2017, 12:02 AM UTC

putnam wrote: post #405

blunte wrote: post #388

Perhaps other people here shared the same assumption that I did - that this essay was about moving from tech development as a contractor/employee to tech (development) consulting. It's not. It's about moving from developing to marketing. There's nothing wrong with that, but it was a let-down to me to discover that the path to riches meant mingling with the group of people I tend to like the least in a company. Also,…

Are you prepared or capable of making that transition?

I'm definitely not capable of doing what he does. Interacting with people is something I can do very, very well. But it costs me a huge amount of energy (introvert). And working with marketing/sales people takes more out of me than with any other segment of the population!

Regarding the Denny's -> Del Frisco's, that I could actually do well :). But that's because I have a special fondness for hospitality and providing people great experiences. I'd probably be foolish enough to open a restaurant someday, and I'd probably regret it later.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#418

Post by kristianc » Sun, Dec 24, 2017, 12:04 AM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #293

kleiba wrote: post #57

To this day, I'm still not quite clear about what a consultant actually does. I mean, beyond some vague idea ("goes to some company, talks with people, gives some recommendation"). I'd really love for someone to give some example or describe in a tangible way what the work of a consultant entails, what skills one typically needs and actually employs, what a typical gig looks like from beginning to end and so on. If a…

My modal engagement was with a SaaS company with $20 million a year sales, a few dozen employees, and 1~3 very strapped people wearing the marketing hat. “How much email do you send?” “We have a newsletter.” “What else?” “Welcome to free trial email. “What else?” “Nothing.” I write proposal. You should: 1) Have a pre-sales drip campaign positioned as a “free course about X delivered over email” w/ 8 emails arriving o…

For most enterprise software sales, who tend to deal in a few large customers rather than lots of small ones, almost all of this would be enormously counterproductive.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#419

Post by blunte » Sun, Dec 24, 2017, 12:04 AM UTC

putnam wrote: post #409

kelvin0 wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the clarification, really this article had me confused. I was trying to 'extract' the bits that would bridge the technical side of things to the consulting side, but could not find it. Obviously now I realize he is talking about marketing. Nice read but unfortunately did not help/apply to me much.

Do you think that there are not engineering consultants making five figures a week?

I'm sure there are. But I doubt there are as many, because of the inclination of marketing people to be willing to pay for outside help vs engineering that tends to enjoy problem solving so much that they only ask for help when things are really bad. Also it's a numbers game - there are more marketing departments than engineering departments (across all business sectors).

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#420

Post by blunte » Sun, Dec 24, 2017, 12:04 AM UTC

borplk wrote: post #416

blunte wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the reason for this situation is that frankly, most management really sucks. It's not easy to be a good manager, and I wouldn't claim I would be a good one. (Like most people, I think I would be better than the people I've worked under, but that's irrelevant.) The best thing is just to quit and move to a hopefully better company. Companies with this mentality seldom change for the better.

I think it runs just a bit too deep in the psyche for one to be able to escape it by moving to a different company. It happens in many contexts even outside of business. Perhaps you can escape it by making a product like a mobile app or SaaS. It gives you a curtain to hide behind which consequently allows the judgement to be directed towards the product/service.

That could explain why everywhere I go, I experience the same thing :).