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Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

nytimes.com

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Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#51

Post by rsj_hn »

Feniks wrote: post #4

Yeah Jakarta was founded as the Amsterdam of the East Indies. Sadly Indonesia doesn't have the near limitless resources of its old colonial owner that keeps Amsterdam/Holland from sinking. Climate change is going to hurt the poorer countries the most.

Ultimately the resources a nation has are the skills of its people and political will. No nations resources are limitless, and the Netherlands has far fewer real resources but much better skills and organizational capabilities.

The fact that the Netherlands was a former colonial power doesn't give them any "colony juice" that they can squeeze onto the ground and dams rise up like apple trees. They still have to design and build the thing given their smarts and labor, and Indonesia has to design the thing given their smarts and labor. The only difference is in the pool of available talent and the organizational abilities of the government to marshall that talent. Given Indonesia's much larger population and greater abundance of natural resources, it's a joke to suggest that it has no resources to build a dam whereas a tiny nation with fewer resources is able to do it. Indonesia's problem is that they are more corrupt and disorganized, and can't marshall their resources effectively.

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#52

Post by spookyuser »

oldandtired wrote: post #43
pje wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sea levels are projected to rise from 0.6 to 6 meters this century. [1] So while urban sinking is a much bigger immediate threat, climate change will pose a significant problem in the near future, and—crucially—will affect every coastal city in the world , not just Jakarta. [1]: https://sealevel.nasa.gov/understanding-sea-level/projection...

I've said in quite a number of times, whenever any prediction of the magnitudes given, it behooves those making the such predictions to answer the energy equation first. Until they do in any sort of reasonable way, all such predictions are completely bogus and do not do give those promulgating such predictions any veracity. The politically correct dogma of anthropogenic climate change (ACC) has given rise to a situat…

> Climate change is inevitable

You sure about that? https://xkcd.com/1732/

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#54

Post by defo_nonconvex »

rsj_hn wrote: post #51
Feniks wrote: post #4

Yeah Jakarta was founded as the Amsterdam of the East Indies. Sadly Indonesia doesn't have the near limitless resources of its old colonial owner that keeps Amsterdam/Holland from sinking. Climate change is going to hurt the poorer countries the most.

Ultimately the resources a nation has are the skills of its people and political will. No nations resources are limitless, and the Netherlands has far fewer real resources but much better skills and organizational capabilities. The fact that the Netherlands was a former colonial power doesn't give them any "colony juice" that they can squeeze onto the ground and dams rise up like apple trees. They still have to desig…

Tiny country by land mass maybe, but you know the Dutch East India Company's peak market cap was (inflation-adjusted) 8x10^12 USD, right? If you don't understand the economic impact of early resource abundance, on the ability to construct education systems, universities, professional organizations, infrastructure, and industry, and the 'pool of available talent', then pick up a strategy game.

Otherwise just Rand-ian codswallop.

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#56

Post by dghughes »

sathackr wrote: post #25

So the city is sinking many inches, even feet per year(due to excessive ground water withdrawals). With all the problems the city has, how does climate change(an average sea level rise of a few millimeters per year) even wind up on the reporters radar? I'm no denier, but it aggravates me when someone tries to force a connection to global warming/climate change.

What connection? To me the reporter stated the sinking was not due to climate change the ground is sinking faster than the sea levels are rising - it's not due to climate change.

But the rising sea level is obviously occuring at the same time as the sinking ground which makes the sitution worse.

>In fact, Jakarta is sinking faster than any other big city on the planet, faster, even, than climate change is causing the sea to rise

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#57

Post by GijsjanB »

rsj_hn wrote: post #51
Feniks wrote: post #4

Yeah Jakarta was founded as the Amsterdam of the East Indies. Sadly Indonesia doesn't have the near limitless resources of its old colonial owner that keeps Amsterdam/Holland from sinking. Climate change is going to hurt the poorer countries the most.

Ultimately the resources a nation has are the skills of its people and political will. No nations resources are limitless, and the Netherlands has far fewer real resources but much better skills and organizational capabilities. The fact that the Netherlands was a former colonial power doesn't give them any "colony juice" that they can squeeze onto the ground and dams rise up like apple trees. They still have to desig…

The Dutch are quite famous for their fight against the water and have build enormous resources (companies, knowledge, public administration) for building dams and the like. Doing 'their thing' all over the world, for example, in Indonesia...

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#58

Post by differentView »

BoysenberryPi wrote: post #16
averagewall wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bit of a nitpick but saying a country has nice people bothers me. It sounds like an empty platitude when they don't have much else to be proud of. Do you really mean Indonesians are nicer than people from somewhere else? What countries don't have nice people?

There are nice people everywhere but if you travel a lot you'll soon learn that some places are a lot less welcoming than others.

Can you be more specific? What places are a lot less welcoming in your many travels?

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#59

Post by oldandtired »

rainbowmverse wrote: post #47
oldandtired wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've said in quite a number of times, whenever any prediction of the magnitudes given, it behooves those making the such predictions to answer the energy equation first. Until they do in any sort of reasonable way, all such predictions are completely bogus and do not do give those promulgating such predictions any veracity. The politically correct dogma of anthropogenic climate change (ACC) has given rise to a situat…

You used a lot of words to hide the lack of any support for your argument.

Do the simple calculations yourself and see what they need to explain.

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#60

Post by oldandtired »

spookyuser wrote: post #52
oldandtired wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've said in quite a number of times, whenever any prediction of the magnitudes given, it behooves those making the such predictions to answer the energy equation first. Until they do in any sort of reasonable way, all such predictions are completely bogus and do not do give those promulgating such predictions any veracity. The politically correct dogma of anthropogenic climate change (ACC) has given rise to a situat…

> Climate change is inevitable You sure about that? https://xkcd.com/1732/

The planet is a dynamic environment subsumes inside another dynamic environment (the solar system) subsumed in another dynamic environment, etc, etc, etc. So yes, it is inevitable.
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