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Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

nytimes.com

41–50 of 129 posts

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#41
post #32

So the city is sinking many inches, even feet per year(due to excessive ground water withdrawals). With all the problems the city has, how does climate change(an average sea level rise of a few millimeters per year) even wind up on the reporters radar? I'm no denier, but it aggravates me when someone tries to force a connection to global warming/climate change.

Sea levels are projected to rise from 0.6 to 6 meters this century. [1] So while urban sinking is a much bigger immediate threat, climate change will pose a significant problem in the near future, and—crucially—will affect every coastal city in the world , not just Jakarta. [1]: https://sealevel.nasa.gov/understanding-sea-level/projection...

> Sea levels are projected to rise from 0.6 to 6 meters this century.

I think you mixed up the units, the article says

> 0.2 meters to 2.0 meters (0.66 to 6.6 feet)

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#42

Well actually adjusts fedora rate of sinking is orthogonal to whether it winds up underwater

Well actually , if it sinks slowly enough then people could build sea walls and so on to keep the water out.

can confirm this was exactly the "well actually" tone I was going for in my comment, nice one

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#43
post #32

So the city is sinking many inches, even feet per year(due to excessive ground water withdrawals). With all the problems the city has, how does climate change(an average sea level rise of a few millimeters per year) even wind up on the reporters radar? I'm no denier, but it aggravates me when someone tries to force a connection to global warming/climate change.

Sea levels are projected to rise from 0.6 to 6 meters this century. [1] So while urban sinking is a much bigger immediate threat, climate change will pose a significant problem in the near future, and—crucially—will affect every coastal city in the world , not just Jakarta. [1]: https://sealevel.nasa.gov/understanding-sea-level/projection...

I've said in quite a number of times, whenever any prediction of the magnitudes given, it behooves those making the such predictions to answer the energy equation first.

Until they do in any sort of reasonable way, all such predictions are completely bogus and do not do give those promulgating such predictions any veracity.

The politically correct dogma of anthropogenic climate change (ACC) has given rise to a situation where those who believe in climate change and who believe that it is mostly natural are classified as climate change deniers by ACC dogmatists and are classified by climate change deniers as climate change freaks.

Climate change is inevitable. However, we do not know what we can mitigate and what we have to endure. We need honest research and not this current politically correct based research being undertaken today.

It is an unfortunate reality that greed is a cause of many human and social related problems and that any natural climate change the planet is undergoing only enhances those human social problems.

If we continue on the politically correct bender of trying to lower CO2 levels without understanding the long term consequences, we are going to kill ourselves. Within very specific limits there is a broad range of CO2 levels (much higher than current levels) that would be highly beneficial to the planet and to us. This is based on evidence released in the last couple of years.

There is much to recommend not polluting our planet, but focussing of the furphy that is CO2 mitigation is wrong in oh so many ways.

We need to look at a holistic methodology to agriculture and manufacturing to ensure that these areas can be highly productive without the current attendant problems. There is more than enough capacity to feed and clothe the human population of this fair planet, but as people are, on the whole, greedy and self-serving, this is not going to happen any time soon.

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#44
post #4

Yeah Jakarta was founded as the Amsterdam of the East Indies. Sadly Indonesia doesn't have the near limitless resources of its old colonial owner that keeps Amsterdam/Holland from sinking. Climate change is going to hurt the poorer countries the most.

Climate change is not the reason Jakarta is sinking. That is caused by the Jakartans themselves.

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#45
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sea levels are projected to rise from 0.6 to 6 meters this century. [1] So while urban sinking is a much bigger immediate threat, climate change will pose a significant problem in the near future, and—crucially—will affect every coastal city in the world , not just Jakarta. [1]: https://sealevel.nasa.gov/understanding-sea-level/projection...

> Sea levels are projected to rise from 0.6 to 6 meters this century. I think you mixed up the units, the article says > 0.2 meters to 2.0 meters (0.66 to 6.6 feet)

Storm surges are more problematic than ocean level rises. Storm surges can be on the order of 10 to 20 metres. But still as per my comment above, energy equation please.

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#46
post #3

Entire Indonesia is falling apart. Economic development is terribly slow over long term and their main export industries (oil, mining, coal and palm oil - [1]) do not seem to have a future due to underinvestment and drying demand. Quite sad.. Such a beautiful, diverse country and nice people. [1] https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/idn/#Exports

> nice people

depends on what time period you lived there, and what ethnicity/religion you belong to.

The multiple racially motivated riots around the turn of century are still fresh in many people's memory.

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#47
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sea levels are projected to rise from 0.6 to 6 meters this century. [1] So while urban sinking is a much bigger immediate threat, climate change will pose a significant problem in the near future, and—crucially—will affect every coastal city in the world , not just Jakarta. [1]: https://sealevel.nasa.gov/understanding-sea-level/projection...

I've said in quite a number of times, whenever any prediction of the magnitudes given, it behooves those making the such predictions to answer the energy equation first. Until they do in any sort of reasonable way, all such predictions are completely bogus and do not do give those promulgating such predictions any veracity. The politically correct dogma of anthropogenic climate change (ACC) has given rise to a situat…

You used a lot of words to hide the lack of any support for your argument.

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#48

So the city is sinking many inches, even feet per year(due to excessive ground water withdrawals). With all the problems the city has, how does climate change(an average sea level rise of a few millimeters per year) even wind up on the reporters radar? I'm no denier, but it aggravates me when someone tries to force a connection to global warming/climate change.

Not to mention rivers and seas have moved throughout the centuries. Ur use to be on the ocean; now it's several km inland. Red Fort was right up against the Ganges. It receded long before this century.

Cities have to adapt to changing sea/river locations. They have throughout history. The only reason New Orleans is still a river port city is because the Army Corps of Engineers has kept the river from naturally diverting to another channel.

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#49
post #3

Entire Indonesia is falling apart. Economic development is terribly slow over long term and their main export industries (oil, mining, coal and palm oil - [1]) do not seem to have a future due to underinvestment and drying demand. Quite sad.. Such a beautiful, diverse country and nice people. [1] https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/idn/#Exports

Indonesia is barely secular. This secular, not secular reality is really cramping effective gorvernance IMHO. Pandering to the muslim community had launched the political carriers of otherwise ineffective and underqualified people. It has also recently landed politicians in jail for blasphemy..

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#50
post #3

Entire Indonesia is falling apart. Economic development is terribly slow over long term and their main export industries (oil, mining, coal and palm oil - [1]) do not seem to have a future due to underinvestment and drying demand. Quite sad.. Such a beautiful, diverse country and nice people. [1] https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/idn/#Exports

This is a bit of a nitpick but saying a country has nice people bothers me. It sounds like an empty platitude when they don't have much else to be proud of. Do you really mean Indonesians are nicer than people from somewhere else? What countries don't have nice people?

New Yorkers?
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