At Vice, Cutting-Edge Media and Allegations of Old-School Sexual Harassment • Hacker News Board

Re: At Vice, Cutting-Edge Media and Allegations of Old-School Sexual Harassment

#61

Post by malvosenior » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 9:08 PM UTC

adamson wrote: post #54

malvosenior wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Austin Walker (current editor in chief for Waypoint - Vice's Video Games site) is the walking antithesis of an alt-right bro. What does being left wing or right wing have to do with anything? We’re talking about sexual harassment, not politics. The majority if the recent high profile cases have been democrats doing the harassment btw.

Read two posts above you. We were talking about how one of the founders is a public racist, but how Vice's current editorial approach seems to have move passed that. I don't think it's controversial that sexual misconduct is persistent across the political spectrum.

Yes, Vice is extremely left wing. They apparently also commit a good deal of sexual harassment internally if this article is to be believed.

Not sure what the founder who left (and his politics) well before any of the alleged offenses has to do with anything.

Re: At Vice, Cutting-Edge Media and Allegations of Old-School Sexual Harassment

#62

Post by collyw » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 9:14 PM UTC

archagon wrote: post #58

malvosenior wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Austin Walker (current editor in chief for Waypoint - Vice's Video Games site) is the walking antithesis of an alt-right bro. What does being left wing or right wing have to do with anything? We’re talking about sexual harassment, not politics. The majority if the recent high profile cases have been democrats doing the harassment btw.

Alt-right is way beyond right wing. Chances are high that if you label yourself alt-right, you're also drinking the sweet red pill poison.

I see quite the opposite. Everyone who as much as questions an over the top left wing stance is labeled as alt-right these days.

Re: At Vice, Cutting-Edge Media and Allegations of Old-School Sexual Harassment

#63

Post by gt_ » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 9:15 PM UTC

BlanketApple wrote: post #8

I'd heard rumors about this at Vice. Glad to see it getting some air. Stories like this are important, because I think the traditional view of sexual harassment is that it happens at JP Morgan, or Exxon, or "stodgy" old companies. People don't think that it can happen at their cool, hip workplace where everyone's woke. But, power is power. Incidentally, and totally based off of a gut reaction and not data: I wonder i…

> but a superior making an advance on their subordinate is pretty inappropriate even if the advance itself is tame.

My thoughts have tended to arrive at the same conclusion. But, this idea seems to be a lot less popular than I'd expect. While the problem might be abuse of power, the popular conversation at the moment, oddly, is not. I wish I understood better why that is.

I agree it is helpful that the contradictions (often around cultural image) get air time. I wonder if this kind of thing can lead the popular conversation to a point of discourse that confronts the similarities in so many of the outcries, such as abuse of power.

Re: At Vice, Cutting-Edge Media and Allegations of Old-School Sexual Harassment

#64

Post by ajmurmann » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 9:27 PM UTC

malvosenior wrote: post #46

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you're being downvoted. Austin Walker (current editor in chief for Waypoint - Vice's Video Games site) is the walking antithesis of an alt-right bro. It is a good question though: how long do you hold an organization responsible for someone or for their collective actions?

> Austin Walker (current editor in chief for Waypoint - Vice's Video Games site) is the walking antithesis of an alt-right bro. What does being left wing or right wing have to do with anything? We’re talking about sexual harassment, not politics. The majority if the recent high profile cases have been democrats doing the harassment btw.

The discussion thread you are responding to was about one of the founders starting "a alt-right white boy club".

Re: At Vice, Cutting-Edge Media and Allegations of Old-School Sexual Harassment

#65

Post by torpfactory » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 9:36 PM UTC

BlanketApple wrote: post #8

I'd heard rumors about this at Vice. Glad to see it getting some air. Stories like this are important, because I think the traditional view of sexual harassment is that it happens at JP Morgan, or Exxon, or "stodgy" old companies. People don't think that it can happen at their cool, hip workplace where everyone's woke. But, power is power. Incidentally, and totally based off of a gut reaction and not data: I wonder i…

I think, in general, that it is totally fine to have company outings, but propositions of any sort should be avoided. You're certainly asking each individual to have self discipline, but in my mind this is a very reasonable expectation.

As a rule, everyone should probably avoid relationships at work. If you do decide to have a relationship, do it right and start extremely slowly (i.e. coffee shop date, etc). Feel things out, not up :) and make sure that both people have the same ideas before moving to the next level. Relationships between superiors and subordinates should generally be forbidden.

Re: At Vice, Cutting-Edge Media and Allegations of Old-School Sexual Harassment

#66

Post by WillPostForFood » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 9:36 PM UTC

flunhat wrote: post #42

WillPostForFood wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that the behavior by Murs goes I commented on and uncriticized in the article. It is in the realm of bad behavior (asking a reporter “can we xxxx”). I suspect it is a lot more comfortable to critique white corporate culture than black rap culture, even though the later is deeply misogynistic.

Unsure why you're bringing race into this, but the article was about Vice not about Murs so it makes sense that they focus on the former more than the latter (even though both are bad, of course)

Murs was a key figure in the article - his vulgar proposition was the inciting event.

Re: At Vice, Cutting-Edge Media and Allegations of Old-School Sexual Harassment

#67

Post by WillPostForFood » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 9:36 PM UTC

provost wrote: post #50

WillPostForFood wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that the behavior by Murs goes I commented on and uncriticized in the article. It is in the realm of bad behavior (asking a reporter “can we xxxx”). I suspect it is a lot more comfortable to critique white corporate culture than black rap culture, even though the later is deeply misogynistic.

I'll criticize Murs as well -- his behavior is also disgusting. However, please leave racial comments out of this.

The three comments here show why behavior like Murs goes not only unaddressed, but unpunished. Rap culture shouldn't be off limits to criticism because of race.

Re: At Vice, Cutting-Edge Media and Allegations of Old-School Sexual Harassment

#68

Post by freeflight » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 9:56 PM UTC

brian-armstrong wrote: post #13

freeflight wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That incident happened after a company event, isn't that considered private time? I mean, she would have had to agree to go with the co-worker, during their off-hours, in the first place and he might have interpreted her willingness to go along as a signal of mutual interest (romantic, sexual) in each other? That isn't meant as an excuse for such creepy, if not straight up criminal, behavior. But as somebody with som…

A good rule of thumb is, if you're not sure, don't stick someone's hand on your crotch.

Where did I suggest that's anything to go by? But I can easily relate to a situation where signals are misinterpreted, which goes both ways: Missing out on advances by others because you don't realize them as such or you interpret them as such and fear of having it misinterpreted and as such don't act on them.

The last time I had "body contact" with a woman she literally had to rip my clothes off and throw me on her bed, even tho I wasn't comfortable with that situation at all and stated as much to her, that I'd rather not have intercourse on the first "date".

She didn't care and I was overwhelmed by that situation, only way out there would have been to handle her roughly. But she assumed I was at her place exactly for that, while I was at her place for exactly the reason we talked about: Seeing how much stuff she had because I wanted her to help with moving out. Sorry for not sticking with the old stereotype of "if a woman invited you over it's to have sex".

That wasn't pleasant at all, she supposedly didn't remember much of it due to being too drunk. I probably could push charges, if anybody would actually believe me, but to what end?

I'm only writing this to put context to my previous statement: People are complicated, social is complicated, for some among us even more so than for others. In that regard, I find it really sad that we readily apply Hanlon's Razor to all kinds of problems but rarely, if ever, to social interactions.

Re: At Vice, Cutting-Edge Media and Allegations of Old-School Sexual Harassment

#69

Post by updownstairs » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 10:03 PM UTC

BlanketApple wrote: post #8

I'd heard rumors about this at Vice. Glad to see it getting some air. Stories like this are important, because I think the traditional view of sexual harassment is that it happens at JP Morgan, or Exxon, or "stodgy" old companies. People don't think that it can happen at their cool, hip workplace where everyone's woke. But, power is power. Incidentally, and totally based off of a gut reaction and not data: I wonder i…

It's true.

Very easy to have a couple drinks on the rooftop for X event, see women as sexy then go back downstairs for mischief.

Of course, that's both sides wanting it.

Re: At Vice, Cutting-Edge Media and Allegations of Old-School Sexual Harassment

#70

Post by freeflight » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 10:05 PM UTC

kelukelugames wrote: post #15

freeflight wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That incident happened after a company event, isn't that considered private time? I mean, she would have had to agree to go with the co-worker, during their off-hours, in the first place and he might have interpreted her willingness to go along as a signal of mutual interest (romantic, sexual) in each other? That isn't meant as an excuse for such creepy, if not straight up criminal, behavior. But as somebody with som…

The EEOC says the company is responsible for things that happen at company events and on the way to and from events. I'm not a lawyer but I hear lingering after the event qualifies.

> I'm not a lawyer but I hear lingering after the event qualifies.

That sounds so undefined, I wonder where the cut-off point is? Considering that co-workers can also be friends in private, so private social gatherings following up on company events are not really that rare of a thing.