How I went from programming to consulting (2012) • Hacker News Board

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#341

Post by magicbuzz » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 8:59 PM UTC

Steeeve wrote: post #249

Addressing several of the threads here: If you're doing contract development that can be done half as well for a quarter of the cost by an offshore team, you are not doing consulting. You are competing in an arena that you will never be able to win. If you want to consult for good money, you have to create your market and you have to have the confidence of that market. You have to be able to give C-level execs advice…

Writing software that is half the quality is a recipe for disaster. I’m managing a team of remote offshore developers who assured me they had lots of ‘corporate development’ experience. In the early days we rejected about 80% of the code they wrote. One guy added 100 lines to a React reducer that we ended up doing in two lines of code.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#342

Post by nicolashahn » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 9:00 PM UTC

md224 wrote: post #325

Reading this just reminded me how lucky we are to work in tech and have the ability to extract so much money out of the companies we serve. My girlfriend works as a copy editor at a major online news site (it's in the US top 100 on Alexa) and her salary is essentially half of mine, even though her job seems more stressful and taxing. I'd love to make more money, but I also think it's ridiculous that people in other f…

I'm assuming you're some sort of programmer.

There's a lot of people who can write/edit good copy, and a lot of people who want a job writing/editing copy, but a limited amount of jobs, and I doubt the market is expanding as fast as tech. Think of some problem that can be solved with software and you've just created X programming jobs, X = # of people required for that company's engineering department, whereas the value to society of adding another news site diminishes quickly.

So there ratio of people who can write good code to programming jobs is lower. Also, and this is a huge assumption on my part, the # of hours you need to put in to be a competent programmer (at the level of money I'm also assuming you make) is greater than the hours to be skilled enough to produce decent copy (for the average person). So it's more difficult for the # of programmers to catch up to the # of programming jobs. Thus, the demand for programmers drives salary.

This is all without talking about the subjective amount of value to society a programmer can bring compared to a copy editor.

To fix this (I hesitate to call it injustice) we could raise taxes+implement UBI or increase funding to some other social welfare programs and raise the maximum income required to take advantage of them. But I think essentially, what careers people choose should be somewhat influenced by what society needs, and salaries can reflect that.

Not saying that the demand for programmers isn't all fucked up because of startup speculation and other factors, but I think in general the tech industry provides a lot of value for the world.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#343

Post by md224 » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 9:04 PM UTC

qdoop wrote: post #331

md224 wrote: post #325

Reading this just reminded me how lucky we are to work in tech and have the ability to extract so much money out of the companies we serve. My girlfriend works as a copy editor at a major online news site (it's in the US top 100 on Alexa) and her salary is essentially half of mine, even though her job seems more stressful and taxing. I'd love to make more money, but I also think it's ridiculous that people in other f…

Enjoy it while it lasts. In less than a decade you will be replaced for sure for a younger one no matter how good you are. http://worrydream.com/#!/MeanwhileAtCodeOrg

Ugh, this is definitely a fear of mine. I'm 33, and the other day I realized that I'm one of the oldest employees of the startup I work at... older than my boss and possibly older than the founders themselves. It was a strange and slightly disconcerting feeling, realizing I was now the "old" guy.

I know about the ageism in the industry, and I do worry that in 5-10 years I'll be struggling to find work. I hope I'm wrong.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#344

Post by patio11 » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 9:06 PM UTC

rawnlq wrote: post #311

patio11 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My modal engagement was with a SaaS company with $20 million a year sales, a few dozen employees, and 1~3 very strapped people wearing the marketing hat. “How much email do you send?” “We have a newsletter.” “What else?” “Welcome to free trial email. “What else?” “Nothing.” I write proposal. You should: 1) Have a pre-sales drip campaign positioned as a “free course about X delivered over email” w/ 8 emails arriving o…

Making the company money is the not the only factor is it? Any engineer at google/facebook/etc are probabilistically making the company multiple millions per year too (terrible estimate from revenue divided by headcount). But probably only a handful of them would ever be able to demand the rate you charge because they are replaceable. How do you make sure the company won't just take your advice and hire a guy to do t…

If they thought they could take a proposal and productionize it with someone available for hire at a total cost of $140k in their first year and that they’re capable of finding, closing, and managing that person then a) my blog is free and you’re welcome to it and b) they would have more than one email written. But for whatever reason they have not made that hire, as evidenced by having no emails actually traversing the interwebs.

People occasionally took my proposals and productionized them with existing or (much more annoyingly) new staff. Oh well. That’s one reason I charged what I charged; the sales process assumes 1 to 3 “actually nope we decided we don’t need you” per engagement which happens.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#345

Post by qdoop » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 9:08 PM UTC

Well lets make more NOISE That was the original title we commented on How I went from $100-an-hour programming to $X0,000-a-week consulting Refers to 2012 and certainly the dust has settled since then.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#346

Post by mcrad » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 9:08 PM UTC

kleiba wrote: post #57

To this day, I'm still not quite clear about what a consultant actually does. I mean, beyond some vague idea ("goes to some company, talks with people, gives some recommendation"). I'd really love for someone to give some example or describe in a tangible way what the work of a consultant entails, what skills one typically needs and actually employs, what a typical gig looks like from beginning to end and so on. If a…

Obviously it varies, but usually there is an element of papering over management problems, under the guise of actually fixing anything. Watch House of Lies on Showtime...

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#347

Post by JohnnyHero » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 9:09 PM UTC

Kinrany wrote: post #225

ZenoArrow wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue you're overlooking is that these management consultants are being paid large fees for information that a company can get for free just by listening to their existing employees. However, that's not a slight on the management consultants themselves (nice work if you can get it), but is a slight on companies that don't trust that their employees can give them sound advice. Problems at the ground level are goin…

How do the companies know that they can trust their employees?

You are asking this as if the trust question relates to honesty of the employee.

Trust in this scenario is NOT a question of "are they going to lie and steal and cheat!

The trust in question here is whether or not the employee/s are sophisticated enough in their understanding of the organizations "big picture directives" to contribute the correct feedback to the questions in need of answers. It is the rare employee whose feedback takes into consideration the big picture because they rarely are exposed to all the information that upper management is.

Either management (or a consultant if need be) has to pull in the data/answers and then prioritize the problems relative to the bigger picture. This is a perspective that the production line worker rarely considers when answering questions. Even the biggest brains in any organization can be blinded by the problems that immediately affect them as opposed to the issues that are central to the organizations overall health and strategic goals.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#348

Post by fnl » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 9:09 PM UTC

kleiba wrote: post #57

To this day, I'm still not quite clear about what a consultant actually does. I mean, beyond some vague idea ("goes to some company, talks with people, gives some recommendation"). I'd really love for someone to give some example or describe in a tangible way what the work of a consultant entails, what skills one typically needs and actually employs, what a typical gig looks like from beginning to end and so on. If a…

Consulting refers to advising the executive branch of a company. So one key ingredient it requires is experience (that the client company lacks), and the ability to communicate (in business/cash-flow terms) why the advice you are giving is superior to the company's current strategy. Obviously, it is necessary that you then can "make it happen", too. The "advice giving" typically happens before you are hired to get the "foot in the door", while the implementation is what you get paid for. I think the German term is more precise: "Unternehmensberater", that is, "company advisor". Anything lesser is just work-for-hire, with a cute title.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#349

Post by fnl » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 9:21 PM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #344

rawnlq wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making the company money is the not the only factor is it? Any engineer at google/facebook/etc are probabilistically making the company multiple millions per year too (terrible estimate from revenue divided by headcount). But probably only a handful of them would ever be able to demand the rate you charge because they are replaceable. How do you make sure the company won't just take your advice and hire a guy to do t…

If they thought they could take a proposal and productionize it with someone available for hire at a total cost of $140k in their first year and that they’re capable of finding, closing, and managing that person then a) my blog is free and you’re welcome to it and b) they would have more than one email written. But for whatever reason they have not made that hire, as evidenced by having no emails actually traversing…

Great point - most people are not aware that finding good personnel to hire is like diving for pearls.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#350

Post by putnam » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 9:21 PM UTC

rawnlq wrote: post #311

patio11 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My modal engagement was with a SaaS company with $20 million a year sales, a few dozen employees, and 1~3 very strapped people wearing the marketing hat. “How much email do you send?” “We have a newsletter.” “What else?” “Welcome to free trial email. “What else?” “Nothing.” I write proposal. You should: 1) Have a pre-sales drip campaign positioned as a “free course about X delivered over email” w/ 8 emails arriving o…

Making the company money is the not the only factor is it? Any engineer at google/facebook/etc are probabilistically making the company multiple millions per year too (terrible estimate from revenue divided by headcount). But probably only a handful of them would ever be able to demand the rate you charge because they are replaceable. How do you make sure the company won't just take your advice and hire a guy to do t…

You don't. You just pick the ones that are in a hiring freeze or actually see the value of what you can demonstrably deliver in a quick turnaround time