How I went from programming to consulting (2012) • Hacker News Board

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#321

Post by sethev » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 8:39 PM UTC

rawnlq wrote: post #311

patio11 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My modal engagement was with a SaaS company with $20 million a year sales, a few dozen employees, and 1~3 very strapped people wearing the marketing hat. “How much email do you send?” “We have a newsletter.” “What else?” “Welcome to free trial email. “What else?” “Nothing.” I write proposal. You should: 1) Have a pre-sales drip campaign positioned as a “free course about X delivered over email” w/ 8 emails arriving o…

Making the company money is the not the only factor is it? Any engineer at google/facebook/etc are probabilistically making the company multiple millions per year too (terrible estimate from revenue divided by headcount). But probably only a handful of them would ever be able to demand the rate you charge because they are replaceable. How do you make sure the company won't just take your advice and hire a guy to do t…

Because they don't need a full time person to achieve the results and it would be silly to shell out more money and try to train somebody to do something that they've clearly failed to do in the past. If my car needs $1000 of repairs, I'm not going to shop around for a class to teach me how to repair cars - especially if, like your example, it costs more than just getting it fixed.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#322

Post by noahc » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 8:40 PM UTC

rev_bird wrote: post #315

danenania wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general, you're right, but there's a sub-niche of entrepreneurs who are either independently wealthy or have easy access to capital that keep all the MVP-building agencies and consultants afloat.

I can't imagine how much work it would be to sift through all the other "ideas people" who need an app next week and then they'll pay you once the cash starts rolling in.

Just bill 50 to 100 percent up front.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#323

Post by ChickeNES » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 8:40 PM UTC

chrishacken wrote: post #296

yequalsx wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an extreme counter example can a person with an IQ or 50 do it? Clearly not. So not everyone can. There’s a range of abilities and personality types. I suspect the number of people with the ability/personality type necessary for $10,000 a week gig is much less than you imply.

Personalities are built; you're not born an introvert. Anyone can be built into a leader; go join the Marine Corps if you don't believe me.

>Personalities are built; you're not born an introvert.

Unless, you know, someone is on the Autism spectrum...

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#324

Post by CyanLite2 » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 8:40 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #142

A question that has bugged me about consulting: Why aren't there (afaik) consulting agents in the same way comedians/actors/musicians have agents? Find me a gig, negotiate the payment, accept the payment, and pay me. Also interface with the client for me. Ultimately the agent works for me doing all of the work I'm bad at. Does this exist? How do I hire somebody to do this sort of thing for me?

Actors, musicians, athletes, etc... are all making so much money that an agent taking a 2% cut can still be very wealthy.

There are firms out there, like recruiting firms, but they will take much more than 2%. Probably close to 25% and you work for them.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#325

Post by md224 » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 8:41 PM UTC

Reading this just reminded me how lucky we are to work in tech and have the ability to extract so much money out of the companies we serve. My girlfriend works as a copy editor at a major online news site (it's in the US top 100 on Alexa) and her salary is essentially half of mine, even though her job seems more stressful and taxing. I'd love to make more money, but I also think it's ridiculous that people in other fields are getting screwed while we prosper. I wish there was a way that we could apply our skills toward fixing this injustice.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#326

Post by maneesh » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 8:41 PM UTC

AFNobody wrote: post #292

maneesh wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to have a similar scarcity mentality --- thinking that because other people were successful, it was like the lottery -- based purely on chance. But I learned over time to develop a abundance mentality -- rather than say 'it can't be done' -- to change my mode of thinking to say 'how did they do it, and is there anything for me to learn.' A consultant making 5 figures a week is not a unicorn, it's not even that…

Please provide literally any evidence you have that the average consultant can reliably and repeatedly generate 5-figures-a-week-individual consultancy. I can already tell you no such evidence exists but if you want to search for it, you are free to do so. > I used to have a similar scarcity mentality --- thinking that because other people were successful, it was like the lottery -- based purely on chance. > But I le…

5-figures a week is a high number, no doubt.

But are you saying there is NO way to improve one's position in life and income? That, if a path can't be shown repeatedly and reliably in a double-blind clinical study, there is no value in attempting to improve oneself?

Do you believe income is fixed, and that if you can't hit a five figure mark, well -- you might as well not try?

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#327

Post by mgkimsal » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 8:46 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #142

A question that has bugged me about consulting: Why aren't there (afaik) consulting agents in the same way comedians/actors/musicians have agents? Find me a gig, negotiate the payment, accept the payment, and pay me. Also interface with the client for me. Ultimately the agent works for me doing all of the work I'm bad at. Does this exist? How do I hire somebody to do this sort of thing for me?

Besides the other reply here (good info), there's also complexity. Determining if you've "completed" the work - they want specified results, which you probably want to negotiate on - that's far more nuanced than "I showed up at this club and did my 2 hour set".

There are tech recruiters that will do short term contract/placements, which may be close, but they're not an 'agent' in the same way as a music/actor/sports agent might be, who may know you for years and understand your career/strengths/skills/etc. The tech recruiter will still more be a body-shop sort of thing.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#328

Post by amenod » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 8:47 PM UTC

ZenoArrow wrote: post #190

taway20171214 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's a management consultant, and the reason they're hired is to provide cover and credibility for both management and your technology team. i.e., "the expensive consultant said it was okay, so don't fire anyone in management, or our technology team, if it goes sideways." in other words, they're actually helping you do your job because they can compare your recommendation to other companies and teams in the industr…

The issue you're overlooking is that these management consultants are being paid large fees for information that a company can get for free just by listening to their existing employees. However, that's not a slight on the management consultants themselves (nice work if you can get it), but is a slight on companies that don't trust that their employees can give them sound advice. Problems at the ground level are goin…

As GP stated, this is not about (not) believing your employees, this is about risk management. In many cases it is justified - do you really want to run your company based on everything your employees come up with? Sometimes you need to check if their instincts are right, especially for decisions that have huge impact on your business. Price for consultants, while it might seem high to you, is actually pretty low compared to business values. Look at it as a kind of insurance.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#329

Post by jayd16 » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 8:49 PM UTC

andrethegiant wrote: post #300

patio11 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My modal engagement was with a SaaS company with $20 million a year sales, a few dozen employees, and 1~3 very strapped people wearing the marketing hat. “How much email do you send?” “We have a newsletter.” “What else?” “Welcome to free trial email. “What else?” “Nothing.” I write proposal. You should: 1) Have a pre-sales drip campaign positioned as a “free course about X delivered over email” w/ 8 emails arriving o…

That's a good example of a marketing consultant, but what about an engineering consultant? Would talking tech stack pros/cons pull in a similar rate?

This is just a guess from what I've seen consultants contribute but there's usually some (at least the appearance of) low hanging fruit to cut costs on. Usually focuses on advice on how to get the AWS bill down.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#330

Post by yequalsx » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 8:51 PM UTC

chrishacken wrote: post #296

yequalsx wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an extreme counter example can a person with an IQ or 50 do it? Clearly not. So not everyone can. There’s a range of abilities and personality types. I suspect the number of people with the ability/personality type necessary for $10,000 a week gig is much less than you imply.

Personalities are built; you're not born an introvert. Anyone can be built into a leader; go join the Marine Corps if you don't believe me.

I didn't say anything about being an introvert or any other personality type. I don't know patio11 or anyone else who commands high consulting fees. But clearly it is more than just knowledge that gets patio11 high fees. There is personality too. If patio11 were a raging asshole then his employability would decrease.

I've met Marines that were assholes so I'm guessing that 'join the Marine Corps' isn't as great advice as it first appears. Recently a Marine drill instructor was implicated in the abuse of Muslim recruits. That isn't a good leadership skill for the corporate environment. Your notion is too simplistic. It doesn't apply to everyone. It applies to some people but not all.

People lie on a spectrum in terms of abilities and personality. Not everyone can be molded to have the requisite knowledge/personality type to command high pay. It's simply not possible. Just take extreme examples and one can easily see this.