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Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

nytimes.com

31–40 of 129 posts

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#31
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bit of a nitpick but saying a country has nice people bothers me. It sounds like an empty platitude when they don't have much else to be proud of. Do you really mean Indonesians are nicer than people from somewhere else? What countries don't have nice people?

Madagascar. Least nice people I've ever encountered

This sits rather oddly with the fact that the Malagasy are basically a bunch of Indonesians who landed on an island off the coast of Africa.

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#32

So the city is sinking many inches, even feet per year(due to excessive ground water withdrawals). With all the problems the city has, how does climate change(an average sea level rise of a few millimeters per year) even wind up on the reporters radar? I'm no denier, but it aggravates me when someone tries to force a connection to global warming/climate change.

Sea levels are projected to rise from 0.6 to 6 meters this century. [1] So while urban sinking is a much bigger immediate threat, climate change will pose a significant problem in the near future, and—crucially—will affect every coastal city in the world, not just Jakarta.

[1]: https://sealevel.nasa.gov/understanding-sea-level/projection...

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#34
post #3

Entire Indonesia is falling apart. Economic development is terribly slow over long term and their main export industries (oil, mining, coal and palm oil - [1]) do not seem to have a future due to underinvestment and drying demand. Quite sad.. Such a beautiful, diverse country and nice people. [1] https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/idn/#Exports

This is a bit of a nitpick but saying a country has nice people bothers me. It sounds like an empty platitude when they don't have much else to be proud of. Do you really mean Indonesians are nicer than people from somewhere else? What countries don't have nice people?

"What countries don't have nice people?"

What countries don't have nice people you run into on the street? Who would be rude or surly to foreign visitors? I can think of several large western cities with stereotypes along these lines.

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#35
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indonesia actually has a larger GDP than the Netherlands and the largest economy in South East Asia

GDP per capita is more than 4x in Netherlands (on a PPP basis). On a straight per capita basis, it’s even higher. See, e.g., https://tradingeconomics.com/indonesia/gdp-per-capita

Huh? That source gives Indonesia about USD4000 and for Netherlands around USD52000 per capita.

(I think I misread your comment and others might too, so I'm leaving this here)

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#36
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDP per capita is more than 4x in Netherlands (on a PPP basis). On a straight per capita basis, it’s even higher. See, e.g., https://tradingeconomics.com/indonesia/gdp-per-capita

Lower GDP generally also means infrastructure works are cheaper. Also, the problem here mostly seems to be not money, but government. As the article states “Nobody here believes in the greater good […] There is no trust”. Short-term, how much more expensive would it be to get clean water from the rivers flowing into Jakarta, instead of from those illegal wells?

Purchasing Power Parity is meant to capture elements like cheaper costs of construction. It gives a real sense of the gap between Indonesia (4th most populous country, with China and India neck-and-neck, followed quite a bit lower by the U.S.) and the Netherlands. Corruption may be a factor too, but you can’t squeeze blood from a stone.

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#37
post #3

Entire Indonesia is falling apart. Economic development is terribly slow over long term and their main export industries (oil, mining, coal and palm oil - [1]) do not seem to have a future due to underinvestment and drying demand. Quite sad.. Such a beautiful, diverse country and nice people. [1] https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/idn/#Exports

This is a bit of a nitpick but saying a country has nice people bothers me. It sounds like an empty platitude when they don't have much else to be proud of. Do you really mean Indonesians are nicer than people from somewhere else? What countries don't have nice people?

Especially since Indonesia had a massive genocide (0.5 - 3 million communists and ethnic Chinese) in the 60s and these people are still in power.

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#38
post #3

Entire Indonesia is falling apart. Economic development is terribly slow over long term and their main export industries (oil, mining, coal and palm oil - [1]) do not seem to have a future due to underinvestment and drying demand. Quite sad.. Such a beautiful, diverse country and nice people. [1] https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/idn/#Exports

This is a bit of a nitpick but saying a country has nice people bothers me. It sounds like an empty platitude when they don't have much else to be proud of. Do you really mean Indonesians are nicer than people from somewhere else? What countries don't have nice people?

North Sentinel island. And New York. :-)

But I take your point. It even seems a little patronising.

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#39
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, it's the corruption and disorganization that's the problem.

Why not blame the socialism?

There are actually real problems to be solved, and nonsensical factless arguments don't solve them.

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#40
post #3

Entire Indonesia is falling apart. Economic development is terribly slow over long term and their main export industries (oil, mining, coal and palm oil - [1]) do not seem to have a future due to underinvestment and drying demand. Quite sad.. Such a beautiful, diverse country and nice people. [1] https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/idn/#Exports

This is a bit of a nitpick but saying a country has nice people bothers me. It sounds like an empty platitude when they don't have much else to be proud of. Do you really mean Indonesians are nicer than people from somewhere else? What countries don't have nice people?

Try asking directions in accented English in Paris.
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