Live data from Hacker News

Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

nytimes.com

11–20 of 129 posts

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#11
post #4

Yeah Jakarta was founded as the Amsterdam of the East Indies. Sadly Indonesia doesn't have the near limitless resources of its old colonial owner that keeps Amsterdam/Holland from sinking. Climate change is going to hurt the poorer countries the most.

The article says they are draining the ground water aquifers too fast and causing the sinking.

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#12
post #4

Yeah Jakarta was founded as the Amsterdam of the East Indies. Sadly Indonesia doesn't have the near limitless resources of its old colonial owner that keeps Amsterdam/Holland from sinking. Climate change is going to hurt the poorer countries the most.

I agree but Jakarta is not terribly poor, with a GDP of over $400B [1]. The problem seems more rooted in a low-trust political environment that is riddled with corruption. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakarta

Right, it's the corruption and disorganization that's the problem.

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#13
post #9
post #2

Hence the definition of sinking...

Yeah, it's not easy to convey how pressing the issue is by just stating that Jakarta is sinking, but that really is a surprisingly dumb headline for an otherwise solid article.

"Sinking" is used in the third sense of http://www.dictionary.com/browse/sink?s=t. The headline is just fine.

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#14
post #3

Entire Indonesia is falling apart. Economic development is terribly slow over long term and their main export industries (oil, mining, coal and palm oil - [1]) do not seem to have a future due to underinvestment and drying demand. Quite sad.. Such a beautiful, diverse country and nice people. [1] https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/idn/#Exports

This is a bit of a nitpick but saying a country has nice people bothers me. It sounds like an empty platitude when they don't have much else to be proud of. Do you really mean Indonesians are nicer than people from somewhere else? What countries don't have nice people?

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#16
post #3

Entire Indonesia is falling apart. Economic development is terribly slow over long term and their main export industries (oil, mining, coal and palm oil - [1]) do not seem to have a future due to underinvestment and drying demand. Quite sad.. Such a beautiful, diverse country and nice people. [1] https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/idn/#Exports

This is a bit of a nitpick but saying a country has nice people bothers me. It sounds like an empty platitude when they don't have much else to be proud of. Do you really mean Indonesians are nicer than people from somewhere else? What countries don't have nice people?

There are nice people everywhere but if you travel a lot you'll soon learn that some places are a lot less welcoming than others.

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#17
post #4

Yeah Jakarta was founded as the Amsterdam of the East Indies. Sadly Indonesia doesn't have the near limitless resources of its old colonial owner that keeps Amsterdam/Holland from sinking. Climate change is going to hurt the poorer countries the most.

People often say that about climate change but isn't it fairly general and obvious that widespread problems hurt poor people the most? In a food shortage, the people who can't afford for food starve first. In developed coastal land shortage, the people who can't afford mitigations have their lives disrupted the most. When a war happens, the people who can't afford to flee get caught up in it. People who can't afford to move out of a high crime neighborhood are more often victims of crime. Disease causes more harm to people who can't afford medicine.

Is being poor really more desirable for anything? Perhaps instead of worrying about global warming, we should solve poverty, then they won't be affected so badly.

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#18
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indonesia actually has a larger GDP than the Netherlands and the largest economy in South East Asia

GDP per capita is more than 4x in Netherlands (on a PPP basis). On a straight per capita basis, it’s even higher. See, e.g., https://tradingeconomics.com/indonesia/gdp-per-capita

Lower GDP generally also means infrastructure works are cheaper.

Also, the problem here mostly seems to be not money, but government. As the article states “Nobody here believes in the greater good […] There is no trust”. Short-term, how much more expensive would it be to get clean water from the rivers flowing into Jakarta, instead of from those illegal wells?

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#19
post #4

Yeah Jakarta was founded as the Amsterdam of the East Indies. Sadly Indonesia doesn't have the near limitless resources of its old colonial owner that keeps Amsterdam/Holland from sinking. Climate change is going to hurt the poorer countries the most.

People often say that about climate change but isn't it fairly general and obvious that widespread problems hurt poor people the most? In a food shortage, the people who can't afford for food starve first. In developed coastal land shortage, the people who can't afford mitigations have their lives disrupted the most. When a war happens, the people who can't afford to flee get caught up in it. People who can't afford…

This is not just global climate change but loca ecological disaster, still the same end result but they have themselves to blame.

Re: Jakarta Is Sinking So Fast, It Could End Up Underwater

#20
post #11
post #4

Yeah Jakarta was founded as the Amsterdam of the East Indies. Sadly Indonesia doesn't have the near limitless resources of its old colonial owner that keeps Amsterdam/Holland from sinking. Climate change is going to hurt the poorer countries the most.

The article says they are draining the ground water aquifers too fast and causing the sinking.

Well, probably one of the biggest factors affecting the aquifer recharge rate would be the loss of forests and mangroves.
Post reply on HN