Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk • Hacker News Board

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#241

Post by prawn » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 2:35 AM UTC

theoh wrote: post #195

asenna wrote: post #168

What's with all the extreme negativity with Bitcoin and its trading price on HN? I've been noticing that in all the BTC related threads recently. Yes, this is possibly getting too large too fast. Yes there is a chance this is a bubble because the barbers and shoeshine boys are talking about it. But there is also a chance that we genuinely are at the beginning of the transition from Fiat currencies to crypto (beginnin…

Blockchain-based currencies are not an acceptable replacement for the existing monetary system because of the extreme brittleness of their mechanisms. You really are completely on your own when it comes to things like getting hacked, losing your wallet, etc. And we know that nobody's machine is secure against a persistent attacker. The social mechanisms (regulatory etc.) around retail banking are a crucial safety mea…

Could that be solved by some sort of banking layer between such-inclined users and their holdings, without interfering with the core aims of Bitcoin? e.g., an abstraction where the next generation bank provides some extra level of security or recourse. I can't imagine that banks as they are today are brilliantly efficient.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#242

Post by spookthesunset » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 2:41 AM UTC

MadSudaca wrote: post #223

rifung wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But there is also a chance that we genuinely are at the beginning of the transition from Fiat currencies to crypto (beginning of the S-curve mass adoption) I can only speak for myself but I see this chance as practically being 0. As far as I can tell the only people who would need something like Bitcoin are those who participate in illegal/immoral activity. Seeing as there is no regulation, I don't think it's far f…

The total market cap of all cryptocurrencies is .6 trillion USD. There's dozens of coins with teams and communities trying to make them succeed and provide value. There's a lot of work and creativity involved in providing new technological solutions to overcome the limitations of older cryptocurrencies. I think you should give the cryptoscene another chance and do some research on what's going on. Saying that all thi…

> Saying that all this work, money and effort is something that will only benefits scammers is a bit unfair

It's entirely fair. Bitcoin is a solution in search of a problem. The only "solution" it's solved so far is lining the pockets of the folks at the top of its pyramid. Bitcoin has been around for, what, 9 years now? If it was going to see mainstream adoption, it would have happened a long time ago.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#243

Post by iloveluce » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 2:42 AM UTC

MadSudaca wrote: post #237

iloveluce wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll bite your bait. Just made an account, my address is xrb_3zrgt5ocbm6u5xjy8xxy8q918bi5rg7eimu5suywjmgebnwnhy4d63bwohk3 Although this site doesn't seem all that secure

sent :) https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=74031BB65A3CEB5E4222...

You pulled through. Thanks :)

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#244

Post by Zofren » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 2:42 AM UTC

MadSudaca wrote: post #219

There's a cryptocurrency called RaiBlocks that is working to be the best at transfer of value. The protocol uses new cryptocurrency concepts evolved over the years and I believe it can be quite revolutionary. In my opinion, bitcoin is one of the worst cryptocurrencies at the moment, and to be honest I hope to see it die soon. Create a wallet using this site https://raiwallet.com/ , paste your address here and I'll se…

I'm interested. Here's my wallet: xrb_143o34yte8m893ua91jtnt6gk4owo8wnwojjcpmq1gmsohqtt5e6ibcj8uzw

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#245

Post by blibble » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 2:44 AM UTC

user5994461 wrote: post #157

germanier wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about checks (we don't really use them here in Germany) but I see many 100k bank transfers and that's an absolutely routine thing to do, even across national borders (but you might need to file some anti-money-laundering and statistical documentation). I would be really surprised if you couldn't transfer 100k (or 1M or 100M) anywhere. Sure, the recipient might need to pay taxes on that.

Yes, the bank can freeze the funds and request the recipient to justify where it came from, that's my point. For international transfers, I've seen some getting cancelled without notification, the money is just sent back. It's weird.

and for bitcoin at any point you want to cash in or out 100k into real money: you'll probably have to go through KYC too

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#246

Post by tlrobinson » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 2:44 AM UTC

forgotpassagan wrote: post #190

pzxc wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lightning network could fix everything, or fail spectacularly. I think an even bigger danger than failing spectacularly is if they take too long to roll it out. Other cryptocurrencies are already gaining some favor because of the situation BTC is in now with the high transaction fees. It has a good chance of working, in my opinion (the lightning network), if they don't dawdle too long. But the clock is ticking.

IMO Lightning network solves a non-problem. It only sets up a transactionless channel between two parties. The whole promise of Bitcoin was secure transfer to anyone. Maintaining a balance between two parties is trivial and solved thousands of years ago. The whole reason we have currency is to allow transactions between people that don't trust each other, so I don't think Lightning network will do anything significan…

This is incorrect. Lightning Network transactions are trustless just like Bitcoin [1], even over multiple hops. You set up a channel with one or a few peers and then can pay or be paid by anyone in the network [2] with no counterparty risk.

1. With the caveat that you (or a service you delegate) need to be prepared to broadcast a transaction within some time period if a peer tries to defraud you, which is unlikely since if they fail they lose their funds in the channel.

2. Assuming enough liquidity in the network

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#247

Post by spookthesunset » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 2:44 AM UTC

prawn wrote: post #238

nextstep wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the negativity about Bitcoin in particular is around the relative lack of utility of the actual network, and how this usefulness hasn’t grown with the price. Currently, Bitcoin Core (the dominant fork still) has ridiculously large transaction fees (sometimes averaging over $20 for a given day) and transactions can take hours or days. There’s also some contention because Bitcoin Cash (the other fork of Bitcoin…

The negativity often seems to go beyond reasonable criticism and delve into spite. As another commenter suggested, I suspect a bit of jealousy is at play and it wouldn't surprise me if a few spiteful commenters wouldn't discuss the shortcomings in a much different way if they held Bitcoin. Obviously, there is more than enough happy-clapping on the side of speculators to balance everything out, but I do wish the conve…

> I do wish the conversation more often found a practical mid-ground.

There isn't much middle ground. Bitcoin has proven to do a horrible job at just about every single thing it was originally marketed as. It isn't free, it isn't instant, it isn't permissionless, it isn't anonymous, it isn't secure, and it isn't decentralized. The only thing bitcoin has going for it is the price, which is more likely than not fueled largely by exchanges pulling funny business.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#248

Post by knieveltech » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 2:46 AM UTC

Of course they are, and why wouldn't they be? Goldman's entire business model is based on raking dumb investment strategies.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#249

Post by ryoshu » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 2:46 AM UTC

MadSudaca wrote: post #219

There's a cryptocurrency called RaiBlocks that is working to be the best at transfer of value. The protocol uses new cryptocurrency concepts evolved over the years and I believe it can be quite revolutionary. In my opinion, bitcoin is one of the worst cryptocurrencies at the moment, and to be honest I hope to see it die soon. Create a wallet using this site https://raiwallet.com/ , paste your address here and I'll se…

I'm game: xrb_1ci1ecu54naqwrmq8m6r3ubwg1dsteofnonaj1mom5eher9ea1y3gi9dwub3

Why is RaiBlocks superior to other cryptocurrencies?

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#250

Post by spookthesunset » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 2:46 AM UTC

solotronics wrote: post #175

asenna wrote: post #168

What's with all the extreme negativity with Bitcoin and its trading price on HN? I've been noticing that in all the BTC related threads recently. Yes, this is possibly getting too large too fast. Yes there is a chance this is a bubble because the barbers and shoeshine boys are talking about it. But there is also a chance that we genuinely are at the beginning of the transition from Fiat currencies to crypto (beginnin…

for me at least it is an opportunity to keep my own wealth. If I can keep my own record of wealth why would I entrust a third party that doesn't care anything about me? Perfect example is Wells Fargo opening accounts and charging people.

> for me at least it is an opportunity to keep my own wealth.

As long as you don't mind the value of that wealth fluctuating by very large amounts. Today that wealth might be worth $10k, but in a month it very well could be $100...