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Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

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Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#211
post #168

What's with all the extreme negativity with Bitcoin and its trading price on HN? I've been noticing that in all the BTC related threads recently. Yes, this is possibly getting too large too fast. Yes there is a chance this is a bubble because the barbers and shoeshine boys are talking about it. But there is also a chance that we genuinely are at the beginning of the transition from Fiat currencies to crypto (beginnin…

for me at least it is an opportunity to keep my own wealth. If I can keep my own record of wealth why would I entrust a third party that doesn't care anything about me? Perfect example is Wells Fargo opening accounts and charging people.

"for me at least it is an opportunity to keep my own wealth. "

This is a really poor reason to use BTC.

A) BTC is supposed to be a currency - generally, a currency is not where you should be storing wealth. Currencies are not designed to be 'stores of value' - they are there to facilitate economic activity and transactions.

If you want to 'store wealth' - put it in real estate, bonds or equities. Commodities. Other currencies. A broad mix/basket of many of them.

B) There's no reason at all to think that BTC will necessarily be worth more/less than another currency. Why do you think BTC will 'always go up'? Much of the BTC hype may have already been had.

C) By simply keeping your currency in a trivial savings account, will roughly protect it from inflation.

In addition - most bank accounts are Federally insured - in case something goes wrong, you get up to $200K back etc..

D) Risk. BTC could go to zero tomorrow. Probably not - but possibly. It's extremely volatile = bad store of value.

People have this really odd view that 'currency = value' ... it's not ... currency is just a 'medium of exchange' - so you only need to hold it when you want to transact with someone else in a common/liquid way.

Over any reasonable length of time, currency is generally not a good place to hold value, and it's not designed for that.

If you have lot's of currency, trade it for something else, spread it out.

There will never, ever be a currency or any other magical currency store of value that will provide what you are kind of implying. Never. This is because the ratio of 'things people need' and the 'amount of currency they need to transact for' is constantly in flux, ergo, a 'fixed' currency constantly in flux relative to that.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#212
post #168

What's with all the extreme negativity with Bitcoin and its trading price on HN? I've been noticing that in all the BTC related threads recently. Yes, this is possibly getting too large too fast. Yes there is a chance this is a bubble because the barbers and shoeshine boys are talking about it. But there is also a chance that we genuinely are at the beginning of the transition from Fiat currencies to crypto (beginnin…

The primary concern is that if BTC wins, we will all be subservient to an algorithm which no one has any incentive to change. We'll lose all financial controls.

Worse, people with massive crypto fortunes can act as evil as they want, and society can't do anything to stop them. Right now we can take the money away from the powerful, if society collectively agrees to. That will become impossible.

If BTC had no upper limit, I would agree with you. But Satoshi capped it, and theories abound as to why. The most reasonable explanation is that he wanted to incentivize network strength: more participants, the healthier the network, and deflationary currency encourages adoption from a game theory point of view.

But think about the endgame. What do you think will happen when coins stop being minted? When there are only 400 BTC left to mine? What will happen to all those miners and the vast worldwide mining apparatus?

If Satoshi were still around, he would likely want to remove the hard cap. And then we'd be in a different situation. But he didn't, so we're not.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a strange thing to say. I think of a "fiat currency" being one which 1. is not backed by a physical good, like gold, and 2. is recognized by a government, so you can pay taxes and fines with it. Why would it be beneficial that you cannot pay your taxes with Bitcoin?

fiat - an arbitrary decree or pronouncement, especially by a person or group of persons having absolute authority to enforce it. The amount fiat currency can be doubled overnight by the authority over the fiat currency. Stealing, in effect, from all of the people holding that currency. Non-fiat, like gold or bitcoin (at least this is what the true believers believe), have a high amount of work that needs to be done t…

Nit, but an interesting subtle one:

bitcoin-core can double the amount of bitcoin overnight. They can commit new code which does that and shows up in the next client.

But, that would presumably be noticed: either in the oss repo, or in the blockchain itself.

So I think more accurately, it's sort of in between a fiat currency and a commodity. It's a fiat currency whose operation is completely transparent.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#214
post #210
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words: Bitcoin is mostly good for illegal transactions.

Primarily, with another use being those who lack a proper banking system.

I doubt it with the insane transaction fees and confirmation delays, they're better off using Western Union on both counts at this point

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#215
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'I can't do anything with Bitcoin that I can't do more easily with my credit card.' That's false as your credit card issuer controls who you can and cannot transact with. With BTC you control whom you transact with.

In other words: Bitcoin is mostly good for illegal transactions.

It can be an equalizer, no doubt about that. Probably the biggest reason I hope it works its way into our culture the way credit and bank card transactions have. That and privacy, which these exchanges have none of.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#216
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'I can't do anything with Bitcoin that I can't do more easily with my credit card.' That's false as your credit card issuer controls who you can and cannot transact with. With BTC you control whom you transact with.

In other words: Bitcoin is mostly good for illegal transactions.

Illegal transactions? On a public ledger system?

BTC was always about reducing control from a few centralized parties. I don't want my bank or paypal account being arbitrarily frozen.

Nowadays BTC is not very good at transactions due to exorbitant fees + very slow confirmation times, but things like ethereum, bitcoin cash, and altcoins offer options. ETH is very quick.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for me at least it is an opportunity to keep my own wealth. If I can keep my own record of wealth why would I entrust a third party that doesn't care anything about me? Perfect example is Wells Fargo opening accounts and charging people.

"for me at least it is an opportunity to keep my own wealth. " This is a really poor reason to use BTC. A) BTC is supposed to be a currency - generally, a currency is not where you should be storing wealth. Currencies are not designed to be 'stores of value' - they are there to facilitate economic activity and transactions. If you want to 'store wealth' - put it in real estate, bonds or equities. Commodities. Other c…

You totally misread the parent comment. Nowhere did they state they only wanted a store of value.

They were talking about the blockchain and its public recordkeeping. There's nothing like Wells Fargo doing shady things and charging you money, or BofA randomly charging you money or changing their account rules, or freezing your account...

Coins have their downsides, but a public ledger for absolute truthkeeping is not one of them.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#219
There's a cryptocurrency called RaiBlocks that is working to be the best at transfer of value. The protocol uses new cryptocurrency concepts evolved over the years and I believe it can be quite revolutionary. In my opinion, bitcoin is one of the worst cryptocurrencies at the moment, and to be honest I hope to see it die soon.

Create a wallet using this site https://raiwallet.com/, paste your address here and I'll send you some raiblocks. The transaction time is about ~5 seconds and there are no fees, so it's almost on par with a credit card, except you don't depend on a bank or a credit card company.

Also, check out this link to google trends: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=raiblocks. You'll see that the country with the most interest in raiblocks is Venezuela, which coincidentally is going through hyperinflation. Bitcoins used to be quite big there as a way of avoiding the loss in value of the national currency, but as the country became poorer and the cryptocurrency networks more congested, the fees became prohibitively expensive. Raiblocks could be a good alternative to cash, or at least help some of the most technically savvy people.

What I'm aiming at is, give the technology a chance. As the top poster says, it might be a big bubble, but it might also be a revolutionary technology (or both, just like the internet).

EDIT: Sorry folks I have to go so you'll have to wait until I check my account again. Still I'll do my best to keep sending as long as people keep asking.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For technical reasons, Bitcoin honestly sucks. The block rate is so low that transactions cost many dollars and take hours to confirm. This is only going to continue to get worse, as it turns out that having a global ledger is actually the opposite of a decentralized system. I can't do anything with Bitcoin that I can't do more easily with my credit card. It offers no value except a tool for rampant speculation. Bloc…

'I can't do anything with Bitcoin that I can't do more easily with my credit card.' That's false as your credit card issuer controls who you can and cannot transact with. With BTC you control whom you transact with.

Well. That's true until the government gets involved regulates it, and starts to actually monitor all transactions.

For Bitcoin like technologies completely lack privacy.

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