Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 487 posts

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#191

Post by matchcohnn »

asenna wrote: post #168

What's with all the extreme negativity with Bitcoin and its trading price on HN? I've been noticing that in all the BTC related threads recently. Yes, this is possibly getting too large too fast. Yes there is a chance this is a bubble because the barbers and shoeshine boys are talking about it. But there is also a chance that we genuinely are at the beginning of the transition from Fiat currencies to crypto (beginnin…

Because at the moment, bitcoin has no redeeming qualities.

- it is not transactional, as each trade costs $30-40. as exchanges hold the orders for weeks

- it is not rare, as there are tons of viable cryptocurrencies coming out each day

- it is not safe, as exchanges go bankrupt and shutdown.

- it is not stable, as prices fluctuate wildly each day. Downside could be 90%, upside could be 20%.

- it is not fast, as 100K+ transactions awaits

- it is not anonymous

- it is not valued correctly, as a sell order of $100M will most likely reduce the price by 50%

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#192

Post by StavrosK »

pzxc wrote: post #188
forgotpassagan wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For technical reasons, Bitcoin honestly sucks. The block rate is so low that transactions cost many dollars and take hours to confirm. This is only going to continue to get worse, as it turns out that having a global ledger is actually the opposite of a decentralized system. I can't do anything with Bitcoin that I can't do more easily with my credit card. It offers no value except a tool for rampant speculation. Bloc…

The lightning network could fix everything, or fail spectacularly. I think an even bigger danger than failing spectacularly is if they take too long to roll it out. Other cryptocurrencies are already gaining some favor because of the situation BTC is in now with the high transaction fees. It has a good chance of working, in my opinion (the lightning network), if they don't dawdle too long. But the clock is ticking.

> I think an even bigger danger than failing spectacularly is if they take too long to roll it out. Other cryptocurrencies are already gaining some favor because of the situation BTC is in now with the high transaction fees.

Who cares? Honestly, who cares if BTC is the one that wins? I only care about some cryptocurrency seeing mass adoption, I don't care if that's BTC or any of the other thousand coins.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#193

Post by njarboe »

spenczar5 wrote: post #171
mulmen wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a financial expert but I thought the value proposition of Bitcoin is that it is not a fiat currency.

That's a strange thing to say. I think of a "fiat currency" being one which 1. is not backed by a physical good, like gold, and 2. is recognized by a government, so you can pay taxes and fines with it. Why would it be beneficial that you cannot pay your taxes with Bitcoin?

fiat - an arbitrary decree or pronouncement, especially by a person or group of persons having absolute authority to enforce it.

The amount fiat currency can be doubled overnight by the authority over the fiat currency. Stealing, in effect, from all of the people holding that currency. Non-fiat, like gold or bitcoin (at least this is what the true believers believe), have a high amount of work that needs to be done to just get a little bit more of it. No grabbing half the currency overnight.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#194

Post by tim333 »

zmk_ wrote: post #97
thess24 wrote: post #75

I've seen a few well know prop trading firms that are trading cryptocurrencies as well (Jump, DRW, probably others) and there doesn't seem to be too much talk of that. Goldman lends credibility and pretty much everyone has heard of them, so I get this is bigger news, but to me the more interesting news is in the trading firms. Prop trading firms have no reason not to manipulate the cryptomarkets (it seems legal) and…

It is not illegal as the market is not regulated right now. You can actually see manipulation in BTC right now.

I think it might be more accurate to say the laws are not enforced now as the markets are not regulated. That's not the same as legal. I'm not sure market manipulation / insider trading laws are that specific as to which asset you are manipulating as to make crypto ok. There's some talk now about Coinbase insiders trading ahead on bitcoin cash and some debate as to whether they could be done for that. I'd be curious how that plays out.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#195

Post by theoh »

asenna wrote: post #168

What's with all the extreme negativity with Bitcoin and its trading price on HN? I've been noticing that in all the BTC related threads recently. Yes, this is possibly getting too large too fast. Yes there is a chance this is a bubble because the barbers and shoeshine boys are talking about it. But there is also a chance that we genuinely are at the beginning of the transition from Fiat currencies to crypto (beginnin…

Blockchain-based currencies are not an acceptable replacement for the existing monetary system because of the extreme brittleness of their mechanisms. You really are completely on your own when it comes to things like getting hacked, losing your wallet, etc. And we know that nobody's machine is secure against a persistent attacker.

The social mechanisms (regulatory etc.) around retail banking are a crucial safety measure for individuals in the first instance. Bitcoin discards all that. If you repair the safety net, by creating a web of trust between principals (e.g. banks), proof-of-work becomes an unnecessary nuisance.

From the recent ING paper: "The average person [...] dislike[s] having no rights, no recourse, no guarantees, no legal coverage, nothing. They just want secure, reliable and hassle-free access to their money, and if they forget their password, they want to be able to call their provider and have the password reset for them. And with reason: recent analysis suggests that up to about 20% of all Bitcoin in circulation may be lost forever, due to, for example, misdirected transactions, lost passwords and crashed hard disks. Banks are the usual providers of custodian functions preventing loss and theft."

It's possible to be anti-Bitcoin while accepting that digital money is the future.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#196

Post by QAPereo »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #181
Maciek416 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tulip boom and bust didn't have much of an effect on the overall Dutch economy. According to this Smithsonian article, the story has been overblown significantly: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/there-never-was-real-...

I don't think anyone is saying the crypto bubble bust will have much of an effect on the economy either.

On its own definitely not, but the same could be said about the assassinstion of Archduke Ferdinand. When the world is a powder keg, it pays to keep track of the matches.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#197

Post by jakupovic »

forgotpassagan wrote: post #186
asenna wrote: post #168

What's with all the extreme negativity with Bitcoin and its trading price on HN? I've been noticing that in all the BTC related threads recently. Yes, this is possibly getting too large too fast. Yes there is a chance this is a bubble because the barbers and shoeshine boys are talking about it. But there is also a chance that we genuinely are at the beginning of the transition from Fiat currencies to crypto (beginnin…

For technical reasons, Bitcoin honestly sucks. The block rate is so low that transactions cost many dollars and take hours to confirm. This is only going to continue to get worse, as it turns out that having a global ledger is actually the opposite of a decentralized system. I can't do anything with Bitcoin that I can't do more easily with my credit card. It offers no value except a tool for rampant speculation. Bloc…

'I can't do anything with Bitcoin that I can't do more easily with my credit card.'

That's false as your credit card issuer controls who you can and cannot transact with. With BTC you control whom you transact with.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#198

Post by tim333 »

tootie wrote: post #29

Can someone explain this collective mania to me? This is all 100% pure speculative frenzy, right?

95% speculative frenzy, 5% building the financial framework of the future. It's a bit like the dot com boom in the crazy days when most of the stuff went bust but some real companies came out of it.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#199

Post by olalonde »

asenna wrote: post #168

What's with all the extreme negativity with Bitcoin and its trading price on HN? I've been noticing that in all the BTC related threads recently. Yes, this is possibly getting too large too fast. Yes there is a chance this is a bubble because the barbers and shoeshine boys are talking about it. But there is also a chance that we genuinely are at the beginning of the transition from Fiat currencies to crypto (beginnin…

A lot of the negativity comes from people who missed the boat, sold too early, etc. Also, people who don't understand bitcoin or confuse it with ICOs/blockchain crap. I'd say that's the bulk of it to be honest.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#200

Post by stale2002 »

pzxc wrote: post #188
forgotpassagan wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For technical reasons, Bitcoin honestly sucks. The block rate is so low that transactions cost many dollars and take hours to confirm. This is only going to continue to get worse, as it turns out that having a global ledger is actually the opposite of a decentralized system. I can't do anything with Bitcoin that I can't do more easily with my credit card. It offers no value except a tool for rampant speculation. Bloc…

The lightning network could fix everything, or fail spectacularly. I think an even bigger danger than failing spectacularly is if they take too long to roll it out. Other cryptocurrencies are already gaining some favor because of the situation BTC is in now with the high transaction fees. It has a good chance of working, in my opinion (the lightning network), if they don't dawdle too long. But the clock is ticking.

Sure. You'll just have to perpetually wait 18 months for the lightning network to get completed.
Post reply on HN