Live data from Hacker News

Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

propublica.org

651–660 of 808 posts

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to pretend that quality matters, move to aerospace, finance, or any critical systems. The important word here is pretend . If the system is safety critical you'd think that quality matters. It doesn't. What matters is following the process laid out in ISO 26262 or whatever standard applies to your field. Whether or not that improves quality is not important (it does, but only a little). The important pa…

Exactly. A prime example of this is the “quality” software at financial companies.

They care about loosing money and risking to lose money.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#652
post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to pretend that quality matters, move to aerospace, finance, or any critical systems. The important word here is pretend . If the system is safety critical you'd think that quality matters. It doesn't. What matters is following the process laid out in ISO 26262 or whatever standard applies to your field. Whether or not that improves quality is not important (it does, but only a little). The important pa…

Yep, part of the quality standard for medical devices is to have processes, and also processes to improve and change the processes. So theoretically there shouldn't be any doubt as what to do in a given circumstance when something fails, and that standards would rise as development matures. But in reality it's just a bunch of paperwork, and as far as the software is concerned, standard practices of unit and integrati…

Testing, review, history of changes... many things that are completely unheard of in the average small development shop.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I call the Mediocre Mercenary Mentality, this idea that "as long as we can make money off of it, it's good enough". This mentality is the reason why sometimes -- but not always! -- my phone won't play music in my car until I restart the _car_. This mentality is why game development companies get away with charging full price for unfinished, bug-ridden games with crippled features and missing content. Thi…

>This mentality is why I feel ashamed every time a receptionist apologizes for the wait why would you feel ashamed for waiting a little longer? that's an odd thing to be insecure about

Because the guy works on computers for a living.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> I'd like to start a business in 3 or 4 years, and I'm seriously considering going out of my way to target people like him. It'll be my competitive advantage. He could be 10 times more expensive than you. Did you consider that?

In my experience that kind of pay differential exists in two places: Pakistan - US or Intern - Not intern. All other roles for different ages I've ever seen has been based on experience and not age, and at the companies I've been that experience is only about 30-50% higher at the worst.

At most companies I've seen, in a single team, two people doing the same thing with a similar amount of experience can have a difference of pay of double.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#655

It doesn't make sense to me to discriminate against people with more experience. Can someone explain it to me? I have heard that companies like recent grads because they are (1) more malleable and (2) can be paid less. But neither of those reasons seem to me strong enough. I'm talking completely about the company's own interests. Let's address the first reason: malleability. A recent grad presumably will adopt the co…

There is the perception that as you get older you don't keep up with new tech and that you work less hard.

So if you are an older person, make a side project with some cutting edge stuff and prove them wrong.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose the distribution is extreme on both sides. Either you accumulated assets from early on and you're golden, or you're still struggling with rent and no pension in sight.

Um, what? Like, cashflow at 50 with 3 kids is important. Yeah, you've saved for retirement at ~65ish, but you have 2 kids in college with one on the way up, plus a mortgage, plus just regular life stuff. That's not an unreasonable scenario at all. Like, do you live in a first world nation? Honestly, the paradigm changes a lot in the 3rd world and your confusion would be more appropriate in Chad or something. (In Chad…

I live in a first world nation. College education is free, allegedly.

If you have kids before your thirties, they will all be +25 when you are 55. They most likely finished college, they probably left the family home.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#658

A lot of managers are threatened by experienced people because experienced people are a lot less shy about pointing out bullshit. People with 5 or less years of experience are much less likely to have a backbone. They're still getting over the school conditioning to complete whatever BS assignment needed to get the grade. Many managers would prefer to have an apparently smoothly running operation than have honest fee…

Experienced people don't necessarily point out bullshit though. Often times, we just keep quiet and watch the train wreck :)

Well, experienced people know how to CYA and let the boss hang themselves when they try to blame someone below them.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#659
post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say it like it is that simple to fix; they could ask for photo in the curriculum and just discard the few that looks old, -after targeting job ads on pages that are disproportionaly "liked" by the age range they want- The only true way to solve this is to force by law to hire older people (e.g. 30% of your workforce must be over 40); otherwise all this proxies like trying to regulate third-party ads and else its…

It is an easy fix. Job ads have no age options allowed. Fixed.

And the next day, those age-based ads will be replaced by other user attributes closely correlated with age.

A US Supreme Court case comes to mind, Batson v Kentucky:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batson_v._Kentucky

In which it became illegal to dismiss a juror based on race. A simple, sensible fix, which most agree did very little to stop race based discrimination from juries. Doing so just became a bit more complicated.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#660

It doesn't make sense to me to discriminate against people with more experience. Can someone explain it to me? I have heard that companies like recent grads because they are (1) more malleable and (2) can be paid less. But neither of those reasons seem to me strong enough. I'm talking completely about the company's own interests. Let's address the first reason: malleability. A recent grad presumably will adopt the co…

It is about fitting stereotype. Stereotype of good programmer is young man in formal clothing. Hence companies look for that.
Post reply on HN