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Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

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Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#41

Post by somethingsimple »

> There is a myth of exceptionalism in America that prevents it from looking outward, and learning from the world

In my experience, this is not exclusive to America. It seems to be a feature of very large and diverse countries. I’m an immigrant from Brazil and I saw the exact same thing there. When a country is large and diverse enough, people seem to think that all that there is to be seen is in their own land, and nothing outside can be much different from that. I had friends that refused to accept that life in other nations was objectively better. They claimed it was just “different”, but that quality of life was the same everywhere. Evidently, they had never traveled abroad.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#42

Post by notfromhere »

johndevor wrote: post #14
w0m wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the tyranny of 'freedom'

Try tyranny of socialism is far, far worse. Nothing is perfect and imagining it can be will get people killed (Russia, Venezuela, China, Cuba, etc.). Individual rights are what makes the West successful compared to the rest of the world.

Why are we pretending its a binary choice?

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#43

Post by johndevor »

Koshkin wrote: post #28
johndevor wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try tyranny of socialism is far, far worse. Nothing is perfect and imagining it can be will get people killed (Russia, Venezuela, China, Cuba, etc.). Individual rights are what makes the West successful compared to the rest of the world.

The socialism in Sweden has not killed anyone.

Not yet, you mean.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#44

Post by nickpp »

_m8fo wrote: post #7

This is the ultimate question -- which is superior: individualism or collectivism? Personally I think collectivism is far superior -- however the forces that be want people to believe individualism is superior, especially in America. This results in people, individuals, denying their fellow peers access to things. As for the question the title poses, there's no answer, because it depends on who you ask. I don't think…

Depends whether that collectivism is forced or not. Because the forced one has been tried - and it's horrifying.

Funny thing about individualists: they just want to be left alone and don't care if you are collectivist or individualists. Kinda like that about them.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#45

Post by frandroid »

swarnie_ wrote: post #3

The article makes a passing mention to the British NHS which is universally loved by everyone in the UK. Why do so many Americans object to universal health care yet complain about insurance premiums? Its something I've never understood as an outside observer.

There's an entire class of super-rich people which have been working at subverting the common good and have richly bought congressmen and newspapers to propagandize about the supposedly inherent superiority of individualism. This is at the root of the settler colonialist agricultural society but has been transformed and multiplied a thousandfold by corporations which have, ironically, built their early wealth on the European reconstruction. Read Manufacturing Consent for the rest. :)

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#46

Post by c0nducktr »

johndevor wrote: post #9
swarnie_ wrote: post #3

The article makes a passing mention to the British NHS which is universally loved by everyone in the UK. Why do so many Americans object to universal health care yet complain about insurance premiums? Its something I've never understood as an outside observer.

>universally loved by everyone I don't think something can be universally loved. There are many stories of long waiting times and people going overseas for private healthcare. People like private healthcare because it aligns with America's love of freedom - which includes the freedom to fail.

Yeah gotta love having the freedom to die because your health insurance doesn't actually cover the health care you need.

American's have a very perverse idea of what 'freedom' is.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#47

Post by hartator »

Except hapiness statistics are superior in the US than in EU [1] while suicide rates are higher in the EU than in the US [2].

1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

2: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/suiciderate.html

Maybe we shouldn’t use vacation anedoctes to try to find what the best political system is?

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#49

Post by _m8fo »

adamnemecek wrote: post #19
_m8fo wrote: post #7

This is the ultimate question -- which is superior: individualism or collectivism? Personally I think collectivism is far superior -- however the forces that be want people to believe individualism is superior, especially in America. This results in people, individuals, denying their fellow peers access to things. As for the question the title poses, there's no answer, because it depends on who you ask. I don't think…

Calling EU collectivist is a stretch.

I didn't mention the EU once in my comment, so I'm a bit confused.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#50

Post by _m8fo »

libertyEQ wrote: post #24
_m8fo wrote: post #7

This is the ultimate question -- which is superior: individualism or collectivism? Personally I think collectivism is far superior -- however the forces that be want people to believe individualism is superior, especially in America. This results in people, individuals, denying their fellow peers access to things. As for the question the title poses, there's no answer, because it depends on who you ask. I don't think…

Considering the entire premise of the founding of the US was based on individual liberty, and throwing the yoke of power off from the centralized power of a monarchy across the ocean, I don't see why we need to be convinced. Why does the whole world need to be homogeneous? Why can't some places on the earth (with ~7B people) value individualism and some value collectivism. Maybe neither one is superior, just differen…

You're conflating things -- collectivism and individualism are not necessarily defined by the system of government.

I'd argue, that collectivism is inherently superior for most albeit with a lower magnitude of quality for most and individualism is the inverse, with a higher magnitude of quality for some and is inherently superior for some.

However I'd also say that individualism is more resilient as it is inherently decentralized. You're right in that one cannot necessarily be better in all ways, but for the traits the article speaks to, I'd argue collectivism is superior.

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