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Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

citylab.com

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Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#151

Post by roymurdock »

Improvotter wrote: post #96

I'm from around Ghent in Belgium and study in Ghent and last year the city introduced a plan where no cars except for taxis and some public transport is allowed inside of the city centre. It's absolutely awesome because Ghent is a student city and you can get anywhere in Ghent using the bike but you can also get anywhere by car by parking nearby in an underground parking lot and walking the rest of the way. But it ha…

How does Ghent's supply chain/delivery system function? In the US we have huge vans or semis to deliver inventory.

I was in Zermatt this Summer (no combustion-engine cars allowed) and everything /everyone is transported around in little electric golf cart type vehicles to reduce smog, which could block the town's view of the Matterhorn. Is it similar in Ghent?

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#153

Post by Sholmesy »

Improvotter wrote: post #96

I'm from around Ghent in Belgium and study in Ghent and last year the city introduced a plan where no cars except for taxis and some public transport is allowed inside of the city centre. It's absolutely awesome because Ghent is a student city and you can get anywhere in Ghent using the bike but you can also get anywhere by car by parking nearby in an underground parking lot and walking the rest of the way. But it ha…

I went to Ghent for the first time this year, just passing through.

That place is amazing, getting rid of cars should be a #1 priority for city centres with ANY foot traffic.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#154

Post by rozenmd »

mamon wrote: post #144
akvadrako wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cyclists in Netherlands are skilled, but they don't follow any of the rules. Red lights just indicate the one moment when cars going cross-ways have priority. However, it's still predictable - the biker will always go first and take any space left on the sides and will often go the wrong way or on the sidewalk.

>> the biker will always go first and take any space left on the sides and will often go the wrong way or on the sidewalk. Shouldn't they get fined for such behaviour? Why is this tolerated?

There are more bikes than people in The Netherlands, it's part politics, part ego (when I was on exchange in the south of NL I was told cyclists had assumed right of way no matter what)

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#155

Post by lucozade »

roymurdock wrote: post #151
Improvotter wrote: post #96

I'm from around Ghent in Belgium and study in Ghent and last year the city introduced a plan where no cars except for taxis and some public transport is allowed inside of the city centre. It's absolutely awesome because Ghent is a student city and you can get anywhere in Ghent using the bike but you can also get anywhere by car by parking nearby in an underground parking lot and walking the rest of the way. But it ha…

How does Ghent's supply chain/delivery system function? In the US we have huge vans or semis to deliver inventory. I was in Zermatt this Summer (no combustion-engine cars allowed) and everything /everyone is transported around in little electric golf cart type vehicles to reduce smog, which could block the town's view of the Matterhorn. Is it similar in Ghent?

Pedestrian-only town centres are getting pretty common.

I can't speak for Ghent but it's fairly normal to have periods, early morning or late evening, where goods vehicles are allowed access.

It's worth bearing in mind that the centres of a lot of European towns and cities are fairly small and not very vehicle friendly anyway. One of the advantages of being pre-industrial is that it can take less work to be pre-industrial again. I'd expect that, in general, doing this is the US will be harder than a lot of Europe as the towns just aren't built that way.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#156

Post by bkor »

mamon wrote: post #144
akvadrako wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cyclists in Netherlands are skilled, but they don't follow any of the rules. Red lights just indicate the one moment when cars going cross-ways have priority. However, it's still predictable - the biker will always go first and take any space left on the sides and will often go the wrong way or on the sidewalk.

>> the biker will always go first and take any space left on the sides and will often go the wrong way or on the sidewalk. Shouldn't they get fined for such behaviour? Why is this tolerated?

The behaviour differs per city. Cyclists on sidewalks isn't tolerated in my city. Eventually they'll start checking and handing out fines.

What's super common is ignoring traffic lights. I also do that regularly. That's mostly due to pretty terrible traffic lights. IMO it just smooths things out.

What they hardly enforce is ensuring that cyclists have proper lights on their bike. Often nothing, sometimes something as bright as the a power indicator led (meaning: not at all). I often have trouble seeing such cyclists while cycling myself! They often also wear dark clothing and have a bike which doesn't have any reflectors.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#157

Post by grenoire »

Improvotter wrote: post #96

I'm from around Ghent in Belgium and study in Ghent and last year the city introduced a plan where no cars except for taxis and some public transport is allowed inside of the city centre. It's absolutely awesome because Ghent is a student city and you can get anywhere in Ghent using the bike but you can also get anywhere by car by parking nearby in an underground parking lot and walking the rest of the way. But it ha…

> Antwerp also recently introduced a measure where only cars with a low amount of "exhaust gases" (can't really find the proper name as of writing this) are allowed in the city centre. I haven't been there since, but it's also something I truly admire going into the future.

Amsterdam is introducing a similar system for scooters. Older scooters are no longer allowed in these designated zones due to 'environmental concerns.' I don't really buy that as the reason though; the government has been actively making the centre more and more bike-safe, and scooters are an active threat to cyclists due to the shared lanes.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#158

Post by sqren »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #14

The cities mentioned as being great for cyclists are Copenhagen and Amersterdam, and now Berlin is trying. What is interesting is that the countries these cities are in Denmark, Netherlands, and Germany have fertility rates of 1.7, 1.7, 1.5 births/female [0]. In other words, people aren't having that many children. When transporting children, cars become a whole lot more convenient than bicycles. You don't have to wo…

> You can easily transport 3 children in the back of a car without difficulty (try doing that on a bicycle).

I see this everyday in Copenhagen:

https://christianiacykel12.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/image...

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#159

Post by tjr225 »

jdietrich wrote: post #136
icebraining wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if you're a good cyclist, but I can't cycle uphill as slowly as I can walk and still maintain good balance.

It's partly fitness, partly technique and partly equipment. If you're totally sedentary, you're probably going to sweat until you develop a base level of fitness. If your bike is badly over-geared, you're going to have to push hard just to keep the bike moving uphill. If you haven't learned to hold your gaze on a distant point, you overcorrect your steering inputs and your pedalling technique is extremely choppy, you…

I am a fairly avid cyclist and I agree with you, especially the second part. Unfortunately I think well over half of the population in my country, the United States- regardless of political leaning- truly dislikes cyclists.

My personal opinion is that the car culture in the United States creates an environment where everyone is enforcing their own arbitrary set of rules on the road, and in most cases, cycling is very much against these rules(regardless of any legal or logical basis).

Reading any comments, as a cyclist, on almost any social media platform regarding cycling becomes disheartening to downright scary. It's as if there's not even a discussion to be had.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#160

Post by bkor »

paride5745 wrote: post #97

Cyclists need to be trained as well. I live in Berlin and too many times cyclists almost run me over and didn't even acknowledged the fact, just flipped the bird at me. I have never been in a dangerous situation with cars, just with cyclists.

> Cyclists need to be trained as well.

You can avoid the majority of the unsafe situations if you have the right infrastructure. Meaning: a simple line on the street or some line on the pedestrian path is really poor safety wise.

A bike line should be on its own. Not close to parked cars, not a part of the pedestrian path. Further, it should be super visible (always painted red in the Netherlands). So many countries there's either no separation or it's just some sign.

Similar for crossings. There's loads of video's explaining the Dutch system. Whenever I go abroad I find most bicycle initiatives unsafe and poorly thought out.

Plus all of this can usually be done without actually needing additional space.

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