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Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

citylab.com

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Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#101

Post by walshemj »

kasey_junk wrote: post #28
SirLJ wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try doing the same during the winter in the northeast or central US

I live in Chicago and my family and our neighbors transport our children to school/stores/activities via bikes or feet. When the snow gets real bad we switch to sleds. Anecdotally from observing my kids school I’d say that yuba bike linked is very popular. As are the Dutch bikes with the big front thing for hauling kids. That of course relies on living in a place with infrastructure that enables it. Which is what Ber…

you mean a cargo bike not very safe for the kids though

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#102

Post by pressanykey »

woodpanel wrote: post #11

Well, hopefully by the time this plan is realized Berlin cyclists will have developed things like respect, manners and a basic concept of not being the most important thing on the road. While its true, that car priorization pushes pedestrian‘s quality of life down - the idea that pedestrians aren‘t as pushed by road rage cyclists is wierd. For pedestrians Cars at least are identifiable (via license plates), can be sl…

I am a daily bike commuter in Berlin. I think dickish people are evenly spread on all transportation modes. Difference is, dickish car drivers kill people, dickish biciclists don't. There has been 9 deaths of biciclists in Berlin in 2017[1] so there is definetely a reason for higher identifiability for car drivers.

[1] http://adfc-berlin.de/radverkehr/sicherheit/aktionen/62-geis...

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#103

Post by jopsen »

a_bonobo wrote: post #36
justinator wrote: post #5

It's crazy to think: you design a city for people, rather than cars, and the city becomes more livable.

Many European cities are a bit lucky in that regard, they are much older than US or Australian cities. The European cities are built on top of plans that were made for pedestrians and horse carriages, with city walls and small streets. Muenster, for example, has a beautiful bike circle around the inner city because that's where the city walls used to be. US and Australian cities are much younger and don't have such '…

That makes no sense... US cities are super lucky to have such wide streets.

If they WANTED to they could easily make dedicated bus and bike lanes that are safe.

It easy they have so much space. European cities have to almost ban cars, to make room for bikes...

This is a political issue, where Americans choose not to do something.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#104

Post by kqr »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #88
kqr wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People often seem to miss this. In many ways, cycling is a terrible form of exercise precisely because it is such an efficient mode of transport.

You can burn 700-800 calories riding for 20 miles or about 1 1/2 hours. I wouldn't walk that much (hours of walking) or run that much (a lot harder on the body), so to me it's really great exercise. That's also why I find kazinator's post a bit exaggerated. That dude's burning through a lot of calories every week. You can eat a lot of ice cream (personal experience) and still lose weight if you're doing 14 miles ever…

Not denying that moving limbs is good for you! I also love cycling, which is a very important factor. I'm just saying that minute for minute, you spend more calories on inefficient modes of transport such as running or swimming or rowing or lifting heavy junk, so if your primary concern is maximising exercise in as little time as possible, that's the first place to look.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#105

Post by laingc »

Grumbledour wrote: post #99
laingc wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure about the explicit training, but drivers in Germany are generally pretty excellent when it comes to dealing with cyclists.

Ha! Good one! Maybe compared with other countries? But that doesn't stop them from ignoring your right of way, parking in the bike lane, pushing you to the side at red lights or pushing in front of you dangerously even when its not you who is blocking traffic, because obviously there is nothing worse than being stuck behind a cyclist. Not to pile on to much on the drivers, because other cyclists are also often terrib…

Compared with other countries I’ve lived in, Germany is a dream for cyclists. Of course, I haven’t cycled in very many countries even within Europe, so it may well be that Germany is not so great in the grand scheme of things - I couldn’t tell you.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#106

Post by kayoone »

paride5745 wrote: post #97

Cyclists need to be trained as well. I live in Berlin and too many times cyclists almost run me over and didn't even acknowledged the fact, just flipped the bird at me. I have never been in a dangerous situation with cars, just with cyclists.

similarly i have almost crashed a couple of times because of pedestrians carelessly walking onto the bike lane (when getting out of their car for example). One time a guy walking next to the bike lane suddenly threw his arm up into my face as i passed (he was going in my direction, so couldn't see me, but was gesticulating widely with this friends). So it goes both ways...

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#107

Post by Xylakant »

Svip wrote: post #90

Another important point often missed in these discussions is training. If you take a driving licence in Denmark, a big part of the training is how to deal with bicyclists. I have also taken a bus driving licence in Denmark, and there it becomes an even bigger thing. Like counting bicyclists as you approach a junction you wish to turn right, placing the bus correctly, so you can see the bicyclists coming towards you i…

Training does not seem to help much. Here in Berlin, I regularly see Dutch and Danish coaches parked on cycle lanes in busy traffic, forcing cyclists to veer into traffic. Enforcement seems to be the key, and that’s sorely lacking here.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#108

Post by tnolet »

laingc wrote: post #98
Svip wrote: post #90

Another important point often missed in these discussions is training. If you take a driving licence in Denmark, a big part of the training is how to deal with bicyclists. I have also taken a bus driving licence in Denmark, and there it becomes an even bigger thing. Like counting bicyclists as you approach a junction you wish to turn right, placing the bus correctly, so you can see the bicyclists coming towards you i…

I’m not sure about the explicit training, but drivers in Germany are generally pretty excellent when it comes to dealing with cyclists.

Hmmm, being Dutch living in Berlin I have to frown at this. In the busier areas around Mitte and Kreuzberg I regularly have to swerve around cars that seemingly are oblivious of cyclists. But I’m probably spoiled due to being used to the Dutch bike path system.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#109

Post by smueller1234 »

laingc wrote: post #105
Grumbledour wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha! Good one! Maybe compared with other countries? But that doesn't stop them from ignoring your right of way, parking in the bike lane, pushing you to the side at red lights or pushing in front of you dangerously even when its not you who is blocking traffic, because obviously there is nothing worse than being stuck behind a cyclist. Not to pile on to much on the drivers, because other cyclists are also often terrib…

Compared with other countries I’ve lived in, Germany is a dream for cyclists. Of course, I haven’t cycled in very many countries even within Europe, so it may well be that Germany is not so great in the grand scheme of things - I couldn’t tell you.

As a German having lived in the Netherlands for many years: the Dutch win in this discipline hands down. Bike lanes that seem like an Autobahn sometimes. Very aggressive policy to try to discourage cars at all in at least Amsterdam. Everyone knows cyclists kind of have the right of way (mostly because they seem to ignore the danger of playing chicken with a car).

I've lived in two major cities in NL and seen a few others. While Amsterdam clearly went further than others, even the Hague was better for cyclists than a university town in Germany.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#110

Post by tatami »

adrianN wrote: post #67
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #14

The cities mentioned as being great for cyclists are Copenhagen and Amersterdam, and now Berlin is trying. What is interesting is that the countries these cities are in Denmark, Netherlands, and Germany have fertility rates of 1.7, 1.7, 1.5 births/female [0]. In other words, people aren't having that many children. When transporting children, cars become a whole lot more convenient than bicycles. You don't have to wo…

If people with children in their cars made up a majority of traffic that would be a good argument. Most trips are made solo though. Replacing at least some of those trips with cycling is better for everybody: the cyclists health, the environment, the children playing on the streets.

And for drivers! Less cars on the road makes it better for those who are left.
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