Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists • Hacker News Board

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#31

Post by imjasonmiller » Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 3:45 AM UTC

kiliantics wrote: post #19

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #14

The cities mentioned as being great for cyclists are Copenhagen and Amersterdam, and now Berlin is trying. What is interesting is that the countries these cities are in Denmark, Netherlands, and Germany have fertility rates of 1.7, 1.7, 1.5 births/female [0]. In other words, people aren't having that many children. When transporting children, cars become a whole lot more convenient than bicycles. You don't have to wo…

I have family in Germany and they have two young children. They own a car but they only use it occasionally for trips. Their daily commute involves one of the parents transporting children to or from kindergarten using a bicycle trailer that both children can sit in. They do this year round and it works out fine. It works out a lot better, in fact, because cycling is much faster than sitting in rush hour traffic.

Those trailers are very common in The Netherlands! Weather doesn’t play that much of a role, from what I know, neither does the fertility rate as cycling has been popular here when it used to be much higher, decades ago.

It is very much a cultural thing in my experience. Nearly all children go to primary and high school on their bicycles, by themselves, although the trips for high schoolers are often I think that touches on why it might not be as popular in other countries, as other countries might not be as flat or lack city planning that takes cyclists into account, e.g. dedicated bike lanes.

It’s also an excellent choice for a country of our size that has limited space, as bicycles make much better use of it than cars.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#32

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 3:47 AM UTC

SirLJ wrote: post #27

toomuchtodo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how I plan on transporting my two kids by bicycle when they're a bit older (electric cargo bike): https://yubabikes.com/ Disclaimer: no affiliation/promotion/etc

Try doing the same during the winter in the northeast or central US

[deleted]

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#33

Post by jdietrich » Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 3:54 AM UTC

SirLJ wrote: post #27

toomuchtodo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how I plan on transporting my two kids by bicycle when they're a bit older (electric cargo bike): https://yubabikes.com/ Disclaimer: no affiliation/promotion/etc

Try doing the same during the winter in the northeast or central US

Plenty of people in northern Scandinavia cycle throughout the winter. With the right clothing and equipment, the weather isn't a particular problem. Many of the highest-rated cities on the Copenhagenize Index of cycle-friendly cities are far north. The highest-rated city in the US is Minneapolis. Malmö, Helsinki and Montréal also make the top 20.

http://copenhagenize.eu/index/

People from non-cycling cultures tend to badly under-estimate the quality of utility cycling equipment and over-estimate the impact of weather on a well-equipped rider.

Schwalbe Marathon Winter tires have hundreds of steel spikes and will grip securely even on black ice. SKS Longboard fenders provide a huge amount of protection from rain, spray and road grime. Lobster mittens keep your hands toasty warm in arctic conditions, while still allowing you to operate the brake and gear levers. Epicyclic gearhubs provide up to 14 gear ratios in a completely enclosed and practically maintenance-free package. Good LED bicycle lights are stunningly bright, rivalling the performance of car headlamps. A long john or Christiania cargo bike will comfortably carry two children, a week's worth of groceries or even a washing machine; with electric assist, these bikes are viable even in very hilly areas.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#34

Post by jdietrich » Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 3:59 AM UTC

SirLJ wrote: post #6

I hope they install a lot of showers...

Cycling doesn't need to be any more strenuous than walking. It keeps you much cooler than walking, because the higher speed creates a windchill effect if you're lightly dressed. People from non-cycling cultures tend to think that cycling is inherently hot and sweaty, but that's completely inaccurate. It's perfectly comfortable if you ride at your own pace rather than busting a gut in an effort to keep up with traffic.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#35

Post by jdietrich » Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 4:06 AM UTC

analog31 wrote: post #25

SirLJ wrote: post #6

I hope they install a lot of showers...

I don't know where you live, but most of the cities in northern Europe have less extreme climate (on both ends, hot and cold) than a large swath of the US. I live in the US and am extremely lucky that I don't sweat a lot for some reason, and am able to ride my bike to work without stinking up the joint. And I adjust my schedule a bit, so I get to work before it starts getting hot. But our summers are certainly hotter…

Seville in Spain is rated as one of the 20 most cycling-friendly cities in the world. Their climate is roughly comparable with much of the southern United States.

http://copenhagenize.eu/index/14_seville.html

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#36

Post by a_bonobo » Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 4:09 AM UTC

justinator wrote: post #5

It's crazy to think: you design a city for people, rather than cars, and the city becomes more livable.

Many European cities are a bit lucky in that regard, they are much older than US or Australian cities. The European cities are built on top of plans that were made for pedestrians and horse carriages, with city walls and small streets.

Muenster, for example, has a beautiful bike circle around the inner city because that's where the city walls used to be. US and Australian cities are much younger and don't have such 'restraints' to work with, so they become car heavy automatically.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#37

Post by soperj » Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 4:17 AM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #14

The cities mentioned as being great for cyclists are Copenhagen and Amersterdam, and now Berlin is trying. What is interesting is that the countries these cities are in Denmark, Netherlands, and Germany have fertility rates of 1.7, 1.7, 1.5 births/female [0]. In other words, people aren't having that many children. When transporting children, cars become a whole lot more convenient than bicycles. You don't have to wo…

Sounds like you've never been there. I spent some time right outside Amsterdam (in Haarlem), and you can easily get a couple kids and a baby on a bike(in a bakfiets). You can easily carry all the diapers and baby feed you need for an outing in a stroller which is all you really need because nearly everything you could want is within walking distance.

-had 2 kids at the time(nearly 3 and 6 months), as well as cousins in town(same age) that we took on the bike as well, not that we used it that much, mostly to go out to another town like Zaanvoort on the coast (11 km away) or to the train station if we were going somewhere further.

Also, every single kid of school age got themselves to school by bike, so the whole pick up/drop up culture of North America wasn't happening.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#38

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 4:21 AM UTC

SirLJ wrote: post #27

toomuchtodo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how I plan on transporting my two kids by bicycle when they're a bit older (electric cargo bike): https://yubabikes.com/ Disclaimer: no affiliation/promotion/etc

Try doing the same during the winter in the northeast or central US

[deleted]

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#39

Post by jacobolus » Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 4:24 AM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #33

SirLJ wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try doing the same during the winter in the northeast or central US

Plenty of people in northern Scandinavia cycle throughout the winter. With the right clothing and equipment, the weather isn't a particular problem. Many of the highest-rated cities on the Copenhagenize Index of cycle-friendly cities are far north. The highest-rated city in the US is Minneapolis. Malmö, Helsinki and Montréal also make the top 20. http://copenhagenize.eu/index/ People from non-cycling cultures tend to…

As an aside, many of the LED bike headlamps I have seen (just like LED car headlamps and most LED hiking/camping lights) are unpleasant and a safety hazard. They are very bright in the blue part of the spectrum, which means they cause severely distracting/blinding glare for anyone else on the road, and knock out people's night vision. Personally I think they should be heavily regulated and forced to be less bright and maybe larger or more diffuse, with a more night-appropriate spectral power distribution.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#40

Post by always_good » Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 4:24 AM UTC

woodpanel wrote: post #11

Well, hopefully by the time this plan is realized Berlin cyclists will have developed things like respect, manners and a basic concept of not being the most important thing on the road. While its true, that car priorization pushes pedestrian‘s quality of life down - the idea that pedestrians aren‘t as pushed by road rage cyclists is wierd. For pedestrians Cars at least are identifiable (via license plates), can be sl…

These kinds of posts are downright bizarre to me.

The only explanation I can see is if you've never had to walk nor bike around, only drive, and only talk to other people who also grumble "fucking cyclists" when they realize they have to share the road with them.

    > German car owners fear nothing more than damages

Well, cyclists and pedestrians have to fear bodily injury from all collisions. You yourself admit that automobile drivers have such little skin in the game that they primarily fear the inconvenience of damage.