Also: https://stallman.org/facebook.html#racism
Important info. But Stallman's writing style is so idiosyncratic that I can't help but read it in his voice, which I find hilarious.
Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads
141–150 of 808 posts
Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads
#142I'm astonished that facebook is successfully able to pull the "we're a platform, its not our fault people are using it illegally" excuse here. There is a huge difference between allowing people to freely post content on places like FB, twitter, or Reddit, and selling access the attention of people that fit specific characteristics. How long until the tech giants are held accountable for willfully skirting decades of…
Well, i dunno. I think it's still on the advertiser to follow the law. Kind of like when some insurance co advertises some insurance product and that advert has to go through copy editors and legal to make sure it does not break any laws (representing product faithfully, not making false or dubious claims) before it gets okayed to be published. In this case HR should consult with legal before putting up job announcem…
Newspapers have been prohibited from running discriminatory ads, Facebook should also be.
Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads
#143It doesn't make sense to me to discriminate against people with more experience. Can someone explain it to me? I have heard that companies like recent grads because they are (1) more malleable and (2) can be paid less. But neither of those reasons seem to me strong enough. I'm talking completely about the company's own interests. Let's address the first reason: malleability. A recent grad presumably will adopt the co…
There's a perception in computer programming that any experience outside of the specific language, library and toolkit being used on the project is irrelevant. Or worse, an impediment; "I don't want somebody with bad habits and instincts acquired from working on now-obsolete systems". Managers really believe a kid with 3 years JavaScript experience and 1 year of Vue is as good (or better) than a senior programmer wit…
If that older Unix or C++ programmer doesn't have a strong bias against Javascript, functional programming, new es6/es7 concepts, and web appliactions in general, then sure. I see many of these types of people even on HN with biases though.
Age shouldn't be used as a catch all filter, but I can see how it might be faster to screen those who have been too content to stick to their tools without catching up to industry trends.
Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads
#144I'm astonished that facebook is successfully able to pull the "we're a platform, its not our fault people are using it illegally" excuse here. There is a huge difference between allowing people to freely post content on places like FB, twitter, or Reddit, and selling access the attention of people that fit specific characteristics. How long until the tech giants are held accountable for willfully skirting decades of…
Selling access for attention of people that fit specific characteristics has been done for decades and its fully legal; that's why bingo shows aimed to old people get Viagra ads, that's why the Seventeen magazine gets acne treatment ads; sure there are some non-teenagers buying the Seventeen magazine but its such a tiny minority that its irrelevant.
But to categories that are not protected its against the law also FB was until recently allowing people to sell adds targeting people with anti semitic views
Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads
#145i guess it is time to setup an FB profile where i'm a forever 20smthing with interests in ... what are youngsters these days interested in?
Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads
#146> “Used responsibly, age-based targeting for employment purposes is an accepted industry practice and for good reason: it helps employers recruit and people of all ages find work,” said Rob Goldman, a Facebook vice president. No, that's... that's literally the opposite of 'helping people of all ages find work'.
No its not except in cases when its legally justified eg adds looking for child actors
Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads
#147I'm a grad student at an elite American university. Several weeks ago, some other students and I attended a recruiting presentation put on by a large multinational company I won't name. The woman who gave the presentation services her company's contract with a tech company, that, let's just say, has a big share of the search engine market. She emphasized that she was looking for diversity, because, as she said, "the…
>>> I'd like to start a business in 3 or 4 years, and I'm seriously considering going out of my way to target people like him. It'll be my competitive advantage. He could be 10 times more expensive than you. Did you consider that?
>He could be 10 times more expensive than you. Did you consider that?
So, the only way that is even in the realm of possibility is if the kid was making $30K and the greybeard was making $300K. That's another benefit of greybeards: you get more bang for the buck simply because of the way salaries scale vs. performance that comes with good experience.
Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Ads have operated this way since their inception, The ability for ads to target individuals while being invisible to others is something quite new and pernicious. If you advertise on television, your commercial is seen by everyone watching. If you run an ad in print media, everyone who has a copy can read it. Individually targeted advertising is ripe for abuse. If you're interested in reading more how this is reall…
Pernicious as it may be, ads being able to exclude people is a natural evolution of ads, not something malicious as it has been portrayed often recently. In the past it was up to the ad buyer to attempt to exclude people based on their wits. I want to use site X because it has these people instead of site Y because it has those people. Totally normal. Now we are debating on the right to see ads because Facebook has s…
@grzm
If you advertise at Macy's certain people will not see the ad. They may not know the product even exists. That's what I meant by ostensibly invisible.
To your larger point. I'm having a hard time understanding where the line is in removing this type of freedom to advertise the way companies want to because of the affects it might have.
I'm going to have to bow out of this because I haven't made up my mind. I am certainly enjoying the conversation though.
Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads
#149It doesn't make sense to me to discriminate against people with more experience. Can someone explain it to me? I have heard that companies like recent grads because they are (1) more malleable and (2) can be paid less. But neither of those reasons seem to me strong enough. I'm talking completely about the company's own interests. Let's address the first reason: malleability. A recent grad presumably will adopt the co…
Age discrimination happens because your line manager doesn't want a more experienced and higher skilled person reporting to him. You might end up replacing him.
Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads
#150It doesn't make sense to me to discriminate against people with more experience. Can someone explain it to me? I have heard that companies like recent grads because they are (1) more malleable and (2) can be paid less. But neither of those reasons seem to me strong enough. I'm talking completely about the company's own interests. Let's address the first reason: malleability. A recent grad presumably will adopt the co…
It's a race to the bottom. You could pay more for better work that gets done more slowly (fewer hours as people have families, etc,) or you could pay less for worse work that gets done more quickly. Well, iOS11 needs to ship on its annual schedule, non-negotiable. And the SVP will really complain if I ask for more money this quarter. So, cheap it is. If a bridge falls down, it's really obvious and people die. If bill…
If billions of computers become vulnerable to malicious actors and a few hundred or thousand people suffer dramatic personal damages, well that's a nice and quiet problem which will be quickly forgotten in the 24-hour news cycle.
This. I do development coaching and training. I’m totally burned out because my job doesn’t matter. These companies don’t care. They hire me to “increase code quality” but that ends up being a lie. They just use me to get their teams to crank out shit faster, and I do mean “shit”. They don’t care if the systems blow up a few times a year or once a week. Banks, oil companies, airlines, all of them. They loose millions because of it too, still it doesn’t matter. No one (in leadership) gives a fuck. “Just make this quarter’s goal” is all that matters.
Fucking equifax for crying out loud, NO CONSEQUENCES. If this isn’t ironic enough do some googling on why Equifax is named such. tl;dr This isn’t their first rodeo. They once fucked up so big they had to change their name.
Sucking at software only has consequences in a few industries, usually ones where the product is software, the product is discretionary, and the customer is fickle. Even then it usually sucks.
These same companies are audit conscious (about money), they’re crazy about regulatory compliance, and workplace harassment. Why? These things have real consequences.
The sooner some company gets fined one year’s profit or an exec goes to jail the sooner this shit will actually matter to them.