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Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

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Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#121

Post by che_shirecat »

combatentropy wrote: post #66

It doesn't make sense to me to discriminate against people with more experience. Can someone explain it to me? I have heard that companies like recent grads because they are (1) more malleable and (2) can be paid less. But neither of those reasons seem to me strong enough. I'm talking completely about the company's own interests. Let's address the first reason: malleability. A recent grad presumably will adopt the co…

highly skilled professions like law, medicine don't have a problem with age discrimination, because of the marginally significant positive correlation between years of experience and results. these fields also weed out the incompetent early. there's plenty of well-paid >50 software engineers out there who have no problem finding work, because they've made a mark in some way throughout their careers in the field or have transitioned into engineering management. alot of the more average older engineers though looking for jobs at high-growth companies honestly just don't merit the salary premium. the ability to engineer something thats "maintanable long term" is (1) not really a skill that's exclusive to people with 20+ yrs experience, (2) not really demonstrable or quantifiable especially for middle management living quarter to quarter, (3) is often a skill that close-minded engineers that really are just set in their ways and resistant to innovation mistakenly think they possess. most of your average software jobs really aren't that hard, and decades of experience don't really gain you as much as you'd think.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#122

Post by Sir_Substance »

combatentropy wrote: post #66

It doesn't make sense to me to discriminate against people with more experience. Can someone explain it to me? I have heard that companies like recent grads because they are (1) more malleable and (2) can be paid less. But neither of those reasons seem to me strong enough. I'm talking completely about the company's own interests. Let's address the first reason: malleability. A recent grad presumably will adopt the co…

> It doesn't make sense to me to discriminate against people with more experience. Can someone explain it to me?

They keep saying all the wrong things, like "no, I won't go on call, that wasn't in the job description I applied for", "sorry, but I won't take on the extra responsibility unless you give me a raise", or "I've been down this road before, I'm not going to work weekends because it's not going to significantly speed up the project and I'd rather be with the wife and kids".

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#123

Post by joering2 »

tmh79 wrote: post #15

I'm astonished that facebook is successfully able to pull the "we're a platform, its not our fault people are using it illegally" excuse here. There is a huge difference between allowing people to freely post content on places like FB, twitter, or Reddit, and selling access the attention of people that fit specific characteristics. How long until the tech giants are held accountable for willfully skirting decades of…

Good question! Imagine Ross Ulbricht saying the same...

Too bad Ulbricht did not have lobbyst working for him.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#124

Post by mankypro »

avs733 wrote: post #37
mankypro wrote: post #23

Laugh while you can monkey boys. That generation built the infrastructure you rely on daily. Way to pay it forward. Suddenly, they too will turn around and realize that they're above 40 and not in the preferred demo. It all comes around in the end. Sometimes the SDN boys need a salty old dog to ask if anyone has actually looked at the back of GigE interface to see if theres a cable actually plugged into it :)

While at a certain level I can't help but agree with you, I think some self-reflection is in order. It is perfectly legal to discriminate against young people but not against older folks. Those laws were put into place by that generation you reference. Not to mention that the likely reason to target younger employees is because they can be paid less for the same job. That is a manifestation of the ongoing depowering…

As a senior DevOps leader I do not discriminate based on age. I hire truly diverse teams, vertical, horizontal and diagonal.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#125

Post by guyzero »

combatentropy wrote: post #66

It doesn't make sense to me to discriminate against people with more experience. Can someone explain it to me? I have heard that companies like recent grads because they are (1) more malleable and (2) can be paid less. But neither of those reasons seem to me strong enough. I'm talking completely about the company's own interests. Let's address the first reason: malleability. A recent grad presumably will adopt the co…

"I've worked with people in their sixties, and they're sweet people."

Survivorship bias.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#126

Post by jklinger410 »

mulmen wrote: post #108
jklinger410 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This post is about targeting ads at certain demographics. Those ads happen to be for jobs.

Exactly, and job seekers over 40 are a protected class, so this is illegal discrimination.

I'm curious if we have the same vigor over Strip Clubs?

They have been operating outside of this law the entire time. Are we supposed to respect this law now, even though everyone in this thread knows its unenforced, unenforceable, and is being broken constantly?

I'm supposed to be outraged by the natural evolution of online ads, though. And at Facebook.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#127

Post by mankypro »

metakermit wrote: post #54
mankypro wrote: post #23

Laugh while you can monkey boys. That generation built the infrastructure you rely on daily. Way to pay it forward. Suddenly, they too will turn around and realize that they're above 40 and not in the preferred demo. It all comes around in the end. Sometimes the SDN boys need a salty old dog to ask if anyone has actually looked at the back of GigE interface to see if theres a cable actually plugged into it :)

Yeah, that generation gave us all kinds of stuff… http://college.usatoday.com/2016/11/09/how-we-voted-by-age-e...

Here we go, dis gunna be gud. That generation, BTW using your logic put Clinton into office. Your head exploding yet?

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#128

Post by trevyn »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #120
leggomylibro wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a race to the bottom. You could pay more for better work that gets done more slowly (fewer hours as people have families, etc,) or you could pay less for worse work that gets done more quickly. Well, iOS11 needs to ship on its annual schedule, non-negotiable. And the SVP will really complain if I ask for more money this quarter. So, cheap it is. If a bridge falls down, it's really obvious and people die. If bill…

I'm one of the greyhairs. I won't work the insane hours, but I'll still get more done. How? By knowing what to write and how to write it, so I don't have to fumble around trying things for nearly as long. By not writing the bugs that the 20-somethings write, which means I don't have to take the time to try to fix them. By not creating the shoddy designs that other create, which then have to be fixed. By having an ide…

>It's about producing working code

I propose that working code is necessary, but not sufficient.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#129

Post by exelius »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #120
leggomylibro wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a race to the bottom. You could pay more for better work that gets done more slowly (fewer hours as people have families, etc,) or you could pay less for worse work that gets done more quickly. Well, iOS11 needs to ship on its annual schedule, non-negotiable. And the SVP will really complain if I ask for more money this quarter. So, cheap it is. If a bridge falls down, it's really obvious and people die. If bill…

I'm one of the greyhairs. I won't work the insane hours, but I'll still get more done. How? By knowing what to write and how to write it, so I don't have to fumble around trying things for nearly as long. By not writing the bugs that the 20-somethings write, which means I don't have to take the time to try to fix them. By not creating the shoddy designs that other create, which then have to be fixed. By having an ide…

I'm not attacking you here (and in fact I agree with you), but from a manager's perspective, I need one guy like you to design it in an architecture modeling tool and 8 young code monkeys to do all the boring work of building and testing it. You can do the code reviews to make sure they don't do stupid shit.

The thought is that a team of greyhairs never ships anything, and a team of youngsters ships garbage. But it's better to ship garbage than nothing, hence the bias.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#130

Post by avar »

notzuck wrote: post #84
avar wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone can create multiple Facebook profiles of various ages and look at job advertisements, which is both cheaper than subscribing to a bunch of newspapers, and less of a hassle than having to get up at 6 am (in the days before people could easily record the radio).

Downvoted and rightly so. Do you think purchasing a few newspapers from the store in the morning is the same thing as having to register multiple accounts on FB just to avoid their age discrimination which you may not be aware is happening in the first place? This also violates their terms of service. How many accounts do I need: one white, one black, one hispanic, one 20 - 30, one 30 - 40?? where does it end? It's u…

    > Downvoted and rightly so.
I don't care about the internet points, but I'd like to point out, account created ~30m ago, that you're using HN the wrong way. Downvoting is not a "I disagree" button like on Reddit, it's a "this is not interesting to discuss" button, the fact that you're replying at all shows that it's not the latter.

    > Do you think purchasing a few newspapers from[...]
No it's certainly not the same, but it is interesting to think about how established precedence for the discretion of advertisers, given their limited money resources and the fact that they have to pick some audience will be applied to social media.

    > How many accounts do I need: one white, one black, one
    > hispanic, one 20 - 30, one 30 - 40?? where does it end?
How many newspaper subscriptions do you need? What do those cost? I'm just pointing out that there's always been a pay-to-play element to job seeking. In some sense what FB is enabling is shitty, but on the other hand the fee to play has never been lower.

    > It's unethical developers like you that allows this
    > kind of thing to happen.
I have zero relation to Facebook, and for what it's worth I wish it didn't exist, but if it didn't the next FB clone would just replace it.
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