Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you want to live in a world without any other living things? How many living things do you want? Is life less interesting if there are only two types of living beings? I think that the world as we know it is valuable to us because we enjoy it, and nothing more. If we can't appreciate the beauty of life (most of us can't persist on the pure beauty of mathematics or conceptual analysis), what's the point?
Yes, this sounds a lot like a Mars colony.
We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill
151–160 of 189 posts
Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, we are all fatigued, and that is how they win. Can't get your Bill through? Rename it and submit again. Still won't work? Tack it onto a Medicaid / NASA funding bill. Still won't get through? Change the wording so that it becomes more vague and open to interpretation in your favour and start again. Bonus points if you give it a name involving patriotism, freedom, economic or personal health, or a backromym that…
>"Bonus points if you give it a name involving patriotism, freedom, economic or personal health, or a backromym that spells out the same." Indeed, and this "cognitive dissonance" technique is so widespread now that you can generally invert the message to find out the actual intention of the legislation is. Examples: If you are cutting taxes for the wealthy donor class say it is bill to "help the middle class and the…
"Patriot act"
All "right to work" laws
Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
We may only have hours left to watch elected representation completely ignore the welfare of the electorate again, but we probably still have months left to choose who exactly it is that we will be shoving up against the wall when the revolution comes. At this point, when they obviously don't fear losing their office, they need to fear something else. If you can't bring yourself to do physical violence, you can maybe…
> we probably still have months left to choose who exactly it is that we will be shoving up against the wall when the revolution comes Advocating violence - and implying worse - is a step beyond inappropriate on HN.
That works out great for problems solvable by a new competitive option in the free market--probably the best way to handle it, actually. The people implementing the best solutions to the problem get paid the most money, and everyone is happy.
But that only works up to a certain scale. If your problem's solution requires a capitalization of more than $100M, you're not going to fix it with a hip, cool, dynamic startup tech company, with the founder-CEO right there directing traffic. At larger scales, you need a lot of people: investors, employees, and managers. You have to deal with the principal-agent problem, where the selfish concerns of an individual may be in conflict with the overarching goals of the whole group, and they have the individual authority to act on their own behalf as they act in the name of the group.
That is the realm of multinational corporate governance and governments. The essence of a government is a controlled monopoly on the uses of force considered to be legitimate. The government is a cartel enforcer. It is there to ensure that if any one person acts too much in his own interest at the expense of the public interest, the cartel enforcer may impose a penalty to encourage a better outcome for the whole cartel in the future. There is no enforcer for the enforcer. If the government becomes corrupted, it can cease to function for its intended purposes. In particular, if a portion of a government that is designed for self-repair ceases to function, there is no possible in-band activity that can reliably restore it. Even if that self-correcting element only partially ceases to function, it may still be cheaper or easier to fix the problem using out-of-band signaling activity.
That out-of-band signaling behavior for a government is all the behaviors explicitly banned by the government: lawbreaking. That can run from relatively innocuous law-scoffing, such as blocking downtown traffic for an hour without a valid municipal demonstration permit, to a full-on bloody rebellion, which is probably the most illegal thing you can do.
The important questions:
- Is the self-regulation function of government compromised? If so, how badly has it been damaged?
- What is the minimum level of unlawful behavior necessary to restore government to its proper functioning (the proper functions being a subjective judgment) as cartel enforcer?
If you maintain that government is functioning as intended, there is no problem to fix. For you. Carry on. Those who do think there are problems may attempt to work around you. They might also go through you. So it helps to be aware of your neighbors and surroundings.
If you maintain that zero amount of unlawful behavior is necessary or sufficient to fix the outstanding problems, then you can continue working within the system. If your efforts aren't yielding results, you have no choice but to double down and do all the same things even harder next time.
Violence is just one tool in the toolbox. Its the one that may still work after all others have failed, the "last argument of kings". You can't take it out of the toolbox. It's always there, even if you don't talk about it. Let us not forget that the US is the only nation to have ever used nuclear weapons on the battlefield. The US has the same order of magnitude for population size and for number of firearms. I recently got some polling results from Cards Against Humanity [0] reporting that 33% of the US population believes another civil war may start within the next decade. You don't have to believe in violence, because violence still believes in you. It believes that you will continue handing over your lunch money every day, and never fight back. It may well be that a punch on the nose, delivered too early, may prevent a chain of events ending with a stab in the back, delivered too late.
Yes, you are correct, discussions on the unauthorized use of force--whether ethical or not--are likely out of scope for HN. But I'm scared out of my mind right now, and talking about it helps me to find more reasons not do it.
Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
>"Bonus points if you give it a name involving patriotism, freedom, economic or personal health, or a backromym that spells out the same." Indeed, and this "cognitive dissonance" technique is so widespread now that you can generally invert the message to find out the actual intention of the legislation is. Examples: If you are cutting taxes for the wealthy donor class say it is bill to "help the middle class and the…
It's hardly so black and white, and people's failure to recognize this and operate in a respectful middle ground is a large factor in our current situation (which is worsening). We've assimilated so many political positions into our cultural signaling subroutines that almost every issue is seen as "identity politics" nowadays. This occurs by design, because political profiteers are profited by creating clear boogeyme…
Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, this sounds a lot like a Mars colony.
And you think that would be a fulfilling life if it wasn't exploring a new planet and shaping it to the way we want?
In terms of shaping a planet the way we want, we can do that on earth, and more so if we figured out how to live without being dependent on other earth organisms.
Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
And you think that would be a fulfilling life if it wasn't exploring a new planet and shaping it to the way we want?
In terms of exploring a new planet, by the time people land on mars, the area they land on would have been explored by spacecraft and rovers in high detail. In terms of shaping a planet the way we want, we can do that on earth, and more so if we figured out how to live without being dependent on other earth organisms.
Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill
#157I find the idea of him expanding the FISA court powers contradictory to his stated purpose of seeking justice in the matter of his supposed 2016 election scandal. Note that this idea is the EFF's interpretation of the bill & not my own view.
If that were the case, then perhaps his intent is to leverage the expanded NSA powers to spy on the FBI, which he seems to believe is working against the current administration. This would not be the first time different parts of the US government were spying on each other. [1]
I don't believe that is the intent of this bill. After reviewing, it seems more likely that the intent of the bill covers two goals: 1. To require added accountability to the FISA application process such that abuses of the FISA court are easier to identify. There are a number of sections in the bill which require disclosures by the FBI which were not necessary before. 2. To remove bureaucratic barriers limiting the Attorney General, who in the case of this political situation, will be relied upon to investigate the government itself.
So I can see where the EFF is coming from with their take on this bill, and certainly there is a political divide over whether or not this bill is a good thing.
Personally I am hoping it will pass.[2]
[0] http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/08/head-house-ethics...
[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2014/03/12...
[2] https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/4478...
Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a deep moral opposition to this kind of spying, and making it more difficult is an end in and of itself. I also don't consider them terribly uncomfortable, but that is my opinion and no one else's. I also personally would prefer not to be spied on. I do not want my day-to-day activities monitored by anyone but myself. In the event that the government starts curtailing freedoms or particular kinds of behavior a…
Well it’s time to ask yourself, are those morals and values worth sacrificing your comfort, your sanity, and maybe even your life? Which do you value more?
Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill
#159Does anyone have a source? I can't find the story anywhere. Edit: http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/365718-house-set...
Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
There isn't a Democratic primary in California, their system is ridiculous. All candidates are in the primary, the top two are on the ballot. Last election had two Democrats against each other, one of them got 19% of the primary vote. Getting Feinstein off the ballot is nearly impossible.
What's ridiculous about that system. It sounds refreshing to have an electoral process not structured around political parties. And why does this system make it harder to get Feinstein off the ballot?
In a Democrat primary, Feinstein getting 49% of the vote could end with her removed from the ballot. In this system, 20% could see her on the ballot.