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We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

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Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#31

Post by [deleted] »

tfha wrote: post #22
letsgetphysITal wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, we are all fatigued, and that is how they win. Can't get your Bill through? Rename it and submit again. Still won't work? Tack it onto a Medicaid / NASA funding bill. Still won't get through? Change the wording so that it becomes more vague and open to interpretation in your favour and start again. Bonus points if you give it a name involving patriotism, freedom, economic or personal health, or a backromym that…

How can we fight against these patterns? Amendments? Force bills to be broken up? Only allow a bill to be submitted once a decade? Our system is definitely broken, but I have no idea what type of changes might prevent these abuses

[deleted]

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#32

Post by bogomipz »

letsgetphysITal wrote: post #21
iovrthoughtthis wrote: post #5

Is anyone else fatigued? The effort required, ontop of just having a normal functioning life, to parse and make decisions around potential future law is incredible. Isn't this what elected officials are ment to do on our behalf?

Yes, we are all fatigued, and that is how they win. Can't get your Bill through? Rename it and submit again. Still won't work? Tack it onto a Medicaid / NASA funding bill. Still won't get through? Change the wording so that it becomes more vague and open to interpretation in your favour and start again. Bonus points if you give it a name involving patriotism, freedom, economic or personal health, or a backromym that…

>"Bonus points if you give it a name involving patriotism, freedom, economic or personal health, or a backromym that spells out the same."

Indeed, and this "cognitive dissonance" technique is so widespread now that you can generally invert the message to find out the actual intention of the legislation is. Examples:

If you are cutting taxes for the wealthy donor class say it is bill to "help the middle class and the poor."

If you want to take health care away from people say "it is a bill that will help the American people."

If you want to empower a monopoly just state that "this is a bill designed to foster competition."

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#33

Post by twothamendment »

b6 wrote: post #8

I don't want to be discouraging to anyone. Please, do anything you think will be helpful. But the NSA's equipment is still in hundreds of network equipment rooms, and the data is being split off recorded and rifled at will. They'll tell you they're "not collecting" your data, but they are. They're just using some strange NSA version of English where siphoning your data and storing it on hard drives is not "collecting…

> I advocate the peaceful destruction of their facility in Utah...

How? Either voting doesn't work or we as a people are too collective stupid to vote for anyone different. How many like Reid, Fienstien and Hatch just keep getting elected despite their actions? Maybe we need some real people to run? Maybe we need to be smart enough to vote them in (and out when their time is up - I'm looking at you, Hatch).

A there letter agency doesn't just disappear because we complain to each other. It is going to take years to undo what is being done.

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#35

Post by at-fates-hands »

archvile wrote: post #16
CWuestefeld wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just plan on waiting it out for the next 4 years. You're not thinking that if the Democrats manage to take the White House, that this situation will improve - are you? I mean, most of this damage was done when Pres. Obama was in the White House and the Congress skewed more toward Democrats. The idea that the Democrats will defend our privacy and 4th Amendment is absurd.

Exactly. Three letter agency abilities were expanded hugely under Obama. Why people can’t grasp this, I’ll never know.

> Three letter agency abilities were expanded

As well as politicized and weaponized.

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#36

Post by murph-almighty »

peterwwillis wrote: post #12

Bad tax reform that benefits mostly corporations and the 1% reported by foreign news outlets get flagged here, but talk about a spy group or internet regulation and suddenly politics is fair game. I'm sick of the echo chamber and the pathetic rules of civility strangling human communication, the invisible voting down of opinions people don't like, the moderation filters that carve out a single world view catered to a…

Your last sentence kinda struck home for me.

3 years ago I was able to get news from reddit that was faster and sometimes more reliable than, say, CNN. It now takes hours for a relevant story to siphon to the top because of certain vested interests downvoting it.

It's made me miss CNN and NYT. I've started drifting back to conventional news outlets because bad actors destroyed the ones I loved.

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#37

Post by bramen »

nerdponx wrote: post #3

Is there anything states can do about this? And, if this passes, is there any way to protect myself? Obviously if the NSA is hoarding zero-days there isn't much you can do, but what are some practical steps? 1) avoid airports and security cameras 2) use an offshore VPN at all times 3) don't use the phone, use E2E encrypted calling like Signal 4) use cash as often as possible, or cryptocurrency Or does none of that ma…

might want to check if your potential offshore vpn is hosted in a country with an intelligence data sharing agreement with the united states or any of its intelligence partners

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#38

Post by 0xfeba »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #15
0xfeba wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I give to the EFF and a few other select causes each year, but I just can't keep up with individual issues. I just plan on waiting it out for the next 4 years.

I just plan on waiting it out for the next 4 years. You're not thinking that if the Democrats manage to take the White House, that this situation will improve - are you? I mean, most of this damage was done when Pres. Obama was in the White House and the Congress skewed more toward Democrats. The idea that the Democrats will defend our privacy and 4th Amendment is absurd.

Obama expanded the program, yes. He did not create it. And also, many other groups I donate to are just swamping me with non-NSA stuff related to Trump and the GOP, so that's also what I meant.

But still, yes, I feel democrats have a better chance of at least listening to constituent concerns about privacy. The GOP wallies about small government, except for the military and they view the NSA/FBI/CIA as the same.

But even if not--I don't see it improving with another R in power either. Or do you?

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#39

Post by bo1024 »

Banthum wrote: post #20
trisimix wrote: post #11

Is there plan to bombard the american public on so many fronts that they accept mass surveillance? What the actual fuck is wrong with this country.

With their revealed preferences, people have signaled that they want convenience more than privacy. Really, surveillance barely even seems necessary any more. People already voluntarily tell Facebook, Uber, Instagram, Amazon and their credit cards companies every detail of their lives. I'm not even sure we can reasonably stop that. The issue to me isn't so much people gathering data, because it's obvious that will ha…

I think it's more accurate to say, people have signaled that they understand the immediate benefits of convenience, but have trouble evaluating the harms of privacy loss. (At least, I know this is true for me.)

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#40

Post by sandworm101 »

iovrthoughtthis wrote: post #5

Is anyone else fatigued? The effort required, ontop of just having a normal functioning life, to parse and make decisions around potential future law is incredible. Isn't this what elected officials are ment to do on our behalf?

Stephen Frye did a nature series a few years ago called "last chance to see" in which he expressed the notion that environmentalists are so dismayed and tired that they are ready to give up and accept the future. I'm starting to feel that way about US democracy. I used to work in the US (lawyer) but have returned to Canada. I feel like I am sitting on a hill watching Rome burn. Why bother trying to help when the Romans are setting fire to their own houses?
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