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Microsoft Moves to End Secrecy in Sexual Harassment Claims

nytimes.com

81–90 of 115 posts

Re: Microsoft Moves to End Secrecy in Sexual Harassment Claims

#81
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Creating a hostile work environment that constitutes discrimination on sex is absolutely, unquestionably, a federal crime, a violation of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (see Supreme Court cases Meritor Savings Bank v. Vinson , Ellison v. Brady , Oncale v. Sundowner Offshore Services , etc. etc. etc. - and Meritor and Oncale had no dissents, and Ellison only had one dissent from a justice who felt that the…

You are 100% wrong. Sexual harassment is EXCLUSIVELY a civil cause of action. It is NOT a crime, end of story. It's honestly baffling that you could have looked at any of those cases and not known you were looking at a civil case.

...Or read the text of the Act. Not sure why you were downvoted.

Re: Microsoft Moves to End Secrecy in Sexual Harassment Claims

#82
post #2

Ending forced arbitration was number one on Susan Fowler's list of "Five Things Tech Companies Can Do Better": https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/5/20/five-things-tech... 1. End Forced Arbitration This is the single most important thing a company can do to prove to its employees that it is dedicated to acting ethically, legally, responsibly, and transparently. Microsoft's change of policy makes sense when you con…

Binding arbitration and confidentiality agreements are two totally different things, that seem to be getting conflated here. There is a defensible argument for not allowing mandatory binding arbitration for certain things. But eliminating the ability of parties to agree to a confidential settlement is a huge mistake. It will result in victims getting less money. An allegation of harassment, without further evidence,…

it wont as I read it, the bill was only to stop enforced arbitration

Re: Microsoft Moves to End Secrecy in Sexual Harassment Claims

#83
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Binding arbitration and confidentiality agreements are two totally different things, that seem to be getting conflated here. There is a defensible argument for not allowing mandatory binding arbitration for certain things. But eliminating the ability of parties to agree to a confidential settlement is a huge mistake. It will result in victims getting less money. An allegation of harassment, without further evidence,…

Less money for victims is a GOOD thing. One of Bill O'Reilly's victims got $32 million for a confidential settlement, which teed up the next victim as a near-certainty.

Why do you think this will lead to less money? And the OReily case didn't go through employer forced arbitration

Re: Microsoft Moves to End Secrecy in Sexual Harassment Claims

#84
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Binding arbitration and confidentiality agreements are two totally different things, that seem to be getting conflated here. There is a defensible argument for not allowing mandatory binding arbitration for certain things. But eliminating the ability of parties to agree to a confidential settlement is a huge mistake. It will result in victims getting less money. An allegation of harassment, without further evidence,…

Accusers getting more money isn't good for the public. Incentive to settle without a fair trial in something as serious as sexual assault is not only not good for the public, it's bad for the public. Due process exists for a damn good reason. Preventing sexual assaults is good for the public, publicizing cases of sexual assaults may well have a tendency to do that. Based on your arguments above, I would come to the c…

Ah so you'd force some one to go to court - what happens when they kill themselves feel good about that would you ?

Re: Microsoft Moves to End Secrecy in Sexual Harassment Claims

#85
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Duke Lacrosse case was a fine example of wrecking the lives of the accused, despite eventually being found completely innocent.

And how many countervailing stories are there of womens’ careers being destroyed because the wouldn’t go along with sexual advances from superiors?

How is this relevant? Are you implying that we should be ignoring obvious injustices like Duke case, for the "greater good?"

Not sure what point you are making since all you did was ask a leading question.

Re: Microsoft Moves to End Secrecy in Sexual Harassment Claims

#86
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how many countervailing stories are there of womens’ careers being destroyed because the wouldn’t go along with sexual advances from superiors?

I'm interested. Produce one that was on the scale of what happened to the Lacrosse players.

I think it's disingenuous to claim that actual victims of harassment haven't suffered as much as the Duke lacrosse players. As another commenter has pointed out, I'm sure there are cases where the situation has escalated to actual murder to silence the victim. Just as lynching has probably resulted from unfounded accusations in the past. People are awful!

Why do people have to take political sides rather than supporting actual truth and justice, regardless of who "wins" a particular case? It's infuriating.

Re: Microsoft Moves to End Secrecy in Sexual Harassment Claims

#87
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talk of “innocent until proven guilty” is misplaced. In a workplace context, you’re not judging guilt and innocence. You’re resolving a civil dispute, where nobody’s freedom is at stake, only property. Even in courts the standard used for civil disputes isn’t “guilt beyond a reasonable doubt” but a mere “more likely than not” conclusion. I’m a civil litigator. We never talk about “innocent until proven guilty.” Imagi…

What's your opinion of Title IX? (Forgive my assumption that you practice in the USA.) My understanding is that it has college campuses hearing criminal cases. (I'm British, and only learned about this yesterday.)

So during the Obama era, rules were put in place to force colleges to deal with sexual assault accusations. The basic idea is sound: the university needs to do something when one student accuses someone else. Applying a criminal standard of proof is incredibly unfair. In the case of a false negative, that results in some student being forced to continue attending classes with her rapist, or to give up educational opportunities by leaving the school herself. Unlike in the criminal context, a false negative (incorrect acquittal) has a direct prejudicial impact on the victim. A rape victim whose rapist doesn’t get convicted may suffer a moral loss, but it’s not like conviction can undo the rape. Accordingly, many women don’t even press charges. But in a college context, the victim is seeking something that can actually help. Not punishment of the accused, but freedom to continue her education without the threat posed by the accused.

Once you realize that false negatives are as harmful as false positives, then it makes sense to use a civil standard instead of putting a thumb on the scale for the accused. Statistically, sexual assault is far more common than false accusations. Applying a criminal standard results in a lot of social harm through false negatives that isn’t outweighed by avoiding false positives.

Where I think Title IX goes off the rails is treating these cases as being about punishment. Civil standards aren’t for punishment, they’re for resolving disputes. In this context, it’s not about deciding whether the accused is guilty of rape, but about deciding: “which student should be the one to leave?” I think Title IX resolutions should be secret and the only remedy should be expulsion or some sort of internal restraining order.

Re: Microsoft Moves to End Secrecy in Sexual Harassment Claims

#88
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your opinion of Title IX? (Forgive my assumption that you practice in the USA.) My understanding is that it has college campuses hearing criminal cases. (I'm British, and only learned about this yesterday.)

So during the Obama era, rules were put in place to force colleges to deal with sexual assault accusations. The basic idea is sound: the university needs to do something when one student accuses someone else. Applying a criminal standard of proof is incredibly unfair. In the case of a false negative, that results in some student being forced to continue attending classes with her rapist, or to give up educational opp…

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Re: Microsoft Moves to End Secrecy in Sexual Harassment Claims

#89
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Courts do have stricter standards for admission of evidence and verdicts. But the basic innocent-by-default is a general principle that should apply pretty much everywhere. And there should be consistency and standards in media reporting of allegations, and for HR decisions.

The thing about innocent-by-default is that false accusations are also a serious crime with serious penalties (for good reason), and if you believe that the accused is affirmatively innocent, you have to believe that the accused is guilty. The reason that courts, specifically, do not have this paradox is that "innocent" simply means "we do not have the evidence to justify using the extraordinary punishment powers res…

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft Moves to End Secrecy in Sexual Harassment Claims

#90
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So during the Obama era, rules were put in place to force colleges to deal with sexual assault accusations. The basic idea is sound: the university needs to do something when one student accuses someone else. Applying a criminal standard of proof is incredibly unfair. In the case of a false negative, that results in some student being forced to continue attending classes with her rapist, or to give up educational opp…

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> In the case of a false negative, that results in some student being forced to continue attending classes with her rapist, or to give up educational opportunities by leaving the school herself.

You're excused.

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