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Microsoft Moves to End Secrecy in Sexual Harassment Claims

nytimes.com

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Re: Microsoft Moves to End Secrecy in Sexual Harassment Claims

#31

Post by astura »

dominotw wrote: post #28
gpm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accusers getting more money isn't good for the public. Incentive to settle without a fair trial in something as serious as sexual assault is not only not good for the public, it's bad for the public. Due process exists for a damn good reason. Preventing sexual assaults is good for the public, publicizing cases of sexual assaults may well have a tendency to do that. Based on your arguments above, I would come to the c…

> something as serious as sexual assault This article is about "sexual harassment" which isn't illegal according to federal law. You are conflating it with "sexual assault" which is a crime.

https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/sexual_harassment.cfm

>It is unlawful to harass a person (an applicant or employee) because of that person’s sex. Harassment can include “sexual harassment” or unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature... Although the law doesn’t prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that are not very serious, harassment is illegal when it is so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment or when it results in an adverse employment decision (such as the victim being fired or demoted).

Re: Microsoft Moves to End Secrecy in Sexual Harassment Claims

#32

Post by greglindahl »

dominotw wrote: post #27
greglindahl wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This discussion is about more than just "telling some one a sex joke".

yea but you are comparing something thats considered crime by federal law to something that isn't. Commiting a crime is illegal, sure. I don't understand what you were implying then.

This discussion is about allegations which range from rape down to "acting creepy." Some of these are crimes.

Even if we aren't initially talking about a crime, I would find it unjust if a billionaire quietly paid off 100 victims of sexual harassment, and then committed an assault. "Who could have predicted this?!?!"

Re: Microsoft Moves to End Secrecy in Sexual Harassment Claims

#34

Post by [deleted] »

astura wrote: post #31
dominotw wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> something as serious as sexual assault This article is about "sexual harassment" which isn't illegal according to federal law. You are conflating it with "sexual assault" which is a crime.

https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/sexual_harassment.cfm >It is unlawful to harass a person (an applicant or employee) because of that person’s sex. Harassment can include “sexual harassment” or unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature... Although the law doesn’t prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that are not very ser…

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft Moves to End Secrecy in Sexual Harassment Claims

#35

Post by grandmczeb »

amputect wrote: post #26
forapurpose wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think these comments are exaggerated and misrepresent the situation, and no basis in fact is provided: > the recent wave of "guilty until proven innocent" ... > the media collectively decided that it was a good idea to promote abandoning the principle of "innocent until proven guilty," The stories I've read have done a good and careful job of corroborating and verifying their stories. Those that don't are subject t…

> The stories I've read have done a good and careful job of corroborating and verifying their stories. There are several good recent examples of this: - the project veritas employee trying to shop a false abortion story to the post - the schumer accusation that was shown to be falsified - weinstein's fake accuser that was planted by his own team to discredit investigations When people come with false information, it…

News organizations aren’t immune from getting it wrong though. The Duke lacrosse case and Brian Banks are two prominent examples.

Re: Microsoft Moves to End Secrecy in Sexual Harassment Claims

#37

Post by jeffdavis »

greglindahl wrote: post #19
sverige wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that the recent wave of "guilty until proven innocent" and "guilty when accused, and more guilty if accused by more people" is even worse for public policy. Due process does indeed exist for a good reason, one of which is to prevent a situation where mere accusations have the power to destroy lives. Does this mean I think any or all of the recent high-profile cases are innocent? Oh shit, wait, it doesn'…

Society has not abandoned innocent until proven guilty in court cases. That's where that standard applies.

Courts do have stricter standards for admission of evidence and verdicts. But the basic innocent-by-default is a general principle that should apply pretty much everywhere.

And there should be consistency and standards in media reporting of allegations, and for HR decisions.

Re: Microsoft Moves to End Secrecy in Sexual Harassment Claims

#38

Post by InclinedPlane »

chaostheory wrote: post #33

It's probably just not Satya Nadella, but ever since he took the reigns at MS, things have gotten better and better. Of course I may have missed something.

He's alright. Mostly it's just the contrast from the previous CEO who was not great for the company.

Re: Microsoft Moves to End Secrecy in Sexual Harassment Claims

#39

Post by taneq »

jeffdavis wrote: post #16
wildmusings wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Binding arbitration and confidentiality agreements are two totally different things, that seem to be getting conflated here. There is a defensible argument for not allowing mandatory binding arbitration for certain things. But eliminating the ability of parties to agree to a confidential settlement is a huge mistake. It will result in victims getting less money. An allegation of harassment, without further evidence,…

"An allegation of harassment, without further evidence, is not going to fare well in court." Then why should it fare well in other contexts?

I don't think parent poster is saying that it should. Instead, I think they're saying "without confidentiality clauses, high-profile targets are less likely to pay hush money to smooth over false accusations, leading to a reduction in false accusations."

(I initially read it the same way you did.)

Re: Microsoft Moves to End Secrecy in Sexual Harassment Claims

#40

Post by chaostheory »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #38
chaostheory wrote: post #33

It's probably just not Satya Nadella, but ever since he took the reigns at MS, things have gotten better and better. Of course I may have missed something.

He's alright. Mostly it's just the contrast from the previous CEO who was not great for the company.

imo It's not just the previous one. Bill is an awesome philanthropist, but I see Steve's reign as a continuation of 'What would Bill do?'.
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