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The Google-Facebook Duopoly Threatens Diversity of Thought

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Re: The Google-Facebook Duopoly Threatens Diversity of Thought

#81

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

dustingetz wrote: post #53
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #4

The solution really is a revitalization of antitrust policy. The reason markets work is because participants in them are bound to a 'race to the bottom' with many other participants doing the same thing. When companies aren't forced to race to the bottom against each other, the conditions of authoritarianism rise. Authoritarian structures don't have to necessarily come from government - monopolies, oligopolies and im…

Network effects are inherent to networks; you can't regulate away the very thing that makes them valuable to people (well, i dont see how at least)

I suppose I see consolidation which is a function of the mechanics of the market as a good reason for nationalization and consolidation which isn't as a good reason for antitrust. So maybe Facebook/Google should be nationalized? I think the real test of that though is to break them up and see whether consolidation reoccurs. I'd love to have lots of competing Googles and I prefer that world to the one with a nationalized Google but I prefer either of those scenarios to having just one private and unaccountable Google.

Re: The Google-Facebook Duopoly Threatens Diversity of Thought

#82

Post by humanrebar »

nickik wrote: post #42
humanrebar wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The question is have we reached a point where technology and globalization provide such enormous returns to the economies of scale that we can't go back or is all this corporate concentration just due to a lack of government enforcement? At some point, America decided that only horizontal monopolies counted, not vertical ones. Many of our concerns about antitrust would be assuaged if regulators started keeping sepa…

False. The law actually changed because judges noticed that the law as it was in the books was pretty nonsensical and totally arbitrary. It was mostly created, pushed and used by a group of progressive to go after their political opponents. Its well documented (even if people choice not to remember this part) that this was very much PR and protectionism of businesses that were afraid to be driven of the market by the…

> That is very easily said but practically impossible.

It's very practical to say should not be able to buy .

Likewise, it is practical to say cannot favor their product in feeds, search, app stores, etc. over competitors.

> Again, said very easily. Have you considered what that would mean?

Sure. To the extent that open standards support types of media, it's a solved problem. Displaying tags has been a thing for decades, for instance. tags are a thing now, as well. Facebook could be previewing external video the same way they preview their own. But their business model is to try to gain market share in the streaming video market, live and otherwise.

Re: The Google-Facebook Duopoly Threatens Diversity of Thought

#83

Post by rhizome »

noobiemcfoob wrote: post #24
rhizome wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You being called names or whatever does not compare at all with a political message discipline executed over multiple mass-media channels.

it's an apparent symptom of the problem

The thing about symptoms is that they require a differential diagnosis.

Re: The Google-Facebook Duopoly Threatens Diversity of Thought

#84

Post by [deleted] »

narrator wrote: post #8

Which makes me ask the question: do you, gentle Hacker News reader, really want diversity of opinion and why? Do you have unpopular opinions and if so, would you get fired or ostracized for sharing them? Are you practicing crimethink? After all, the only people actually working on alternatives to Google and Facebook are the alt-right who have been de-platformed. Gab.ai is so de-platformed that google doesn't even let…

[deleted]

Re: The Google-Facebook Duopoly Threatens Diversity of Thought

#85

Post by JSONwebtoken »

guelo wrote: post #17

Right wing propaganda is so strong and coordinated these days that they can develop a new goal and drive a single message repeatedly across multiple platforms for months or years. This attack on Google is a new right wing message developed this year but they just keep hammering at it across all their channels tailoring their argument to the different audiences and continuously building mind share and momentum.

Left wing propaganda is so strong and coordinated these days that they can develop a new goal and drive a single message repeatedly across multiple platforms for months or years. This defense of Google's monopoly is a new left wing message developed this year but they just keep hammering at it across all their channels tailoring their argument to the different audiences and continuously building mind share and momentum.

Re: The Google-Facebook Duopoly Threatens Diversity of Thought

#86

Post by ch4s3 »

nickik wrote: post #62
dominotw wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is comcast not a monopoly? That was my only choice when I lived chicago.

They are a local monopoly (and in case of comcast more then just local). But you see this is very different. This is essentially a state created monopoly, so the left does never really seem to care about them. They were pretty much born as monopolies. The left is only interested in the 'free market great monopolies and we need to protect the people with regulation narrative'. The right on the other hand does not real…

This is a categorically false assertion. Almost everyone hates comcast. And left, right, and center numerous municipalities are trying to break Comcast's local monopolies, but are being stopped by state legislatures. Regulatory capture is a big problem, and the buying of politicians is a problem on both sides politically in the US.

*Edit: I'd be curious to know why people disagree with my statement.

Re: The Google-Facebook Duopoly Threatens Diversity of Thought

#87

Post by matt4077 »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #35
colordrops wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both right and left wing propaganda is strong and coordinated these days. I can't say anything that doesn't toe the line with either side and not have them look at me like I'm an asshole. I've been called both a socialist welfare state supporter and a reactionary corporate feudalist. Which is it folks. The division is worse than it ever was in my lifetime.

Welcome to identity politics and the over saturation of a politically correct ruling class run amok. If people weren't so fucking reactionary to everything they read, see, hear and experience, we wouldn't be in this mess and rational discourse might have a chance. As it stands, people are so easily offended, there isn't any space for an actual discussion. As someone who considers myself an Independent, I spend hours…

This sort of false neutrality, tinged with the cynicism of putting scare quotes around "journalists", and the indecency of somehow mistaking their rather pedestrian fare of contrarianism with exceptional smartitude is exactly what I think of when faced with peoples' incredulity at the continuing existence of "independents".

Re: The Google-Facebook Duopoly Threatens Diversity of Thought

#89

Post by dragonwriter »

atomi wrote: post #75
jacksmith21006 wrote: post #43

Not sure ther issue with Google. I use Google Alerts and get a mixture of content and definitely not slanted one way or another. I am pretty liberal but I am someone that can deal with reading the otherside and do not have to put my head in the sand. I will even watch Fox from time to time just to see how they are talking about things. Google would know my slant so putting Breitbart articles in my alerts and on the G…

Here's something: ask your Google Assistant how old the Earth is. Now ask how old the Moon is. Do you think it's just an innocent oversight that Google Assistant doesn't reply with the age of the Earth? Perhaps it is.

Given that it gives the wrong answer for the moon (even though it's source has the right answer!) and given its spotty coverage of other similar information pairs where there is no credible ideological motive (e.g., sunrise times vs. moonrise times), yes, I think “Knowledge Graph is spotty, incomplete, often inaccurate, and has insufficient human attention” is the Occam’s Razor-compatible answer, despite how fun conspiracy theories can be.

Re: The Google-Facebook Duopoly Threatens Diversity of Thought

#90

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

narrator wrote: post #8

Which makes me ask the question: do you, gentle Hacker News reader, really want diversity of opinion and why? Do you have unpopular opinions and if so, would you get fired or ostracized for sharing them? Are you practicing crimethink? After all, the only people actually working on alternatives to Google and Facebook are the alt-right who have been de-platformed. Gab.ai is so de-platformed that google doesn't even let…

> Are you practicing crimethink?

-A few hundred years ago, being an atheist was "crimethink", as was religious tolerance towards Jews, Muslims, and so forth.

-A few hundred years ago, questioning the divine right of kings to rule was "crimethink".

-In the early 1600s, Galileo stood trial and was condemned for the "crimethink" of saying the Earth moved around the Sun, in contradiction to the teachings of the Church.

-As little as 200 years ago, advocating racial equality was "crimethink", as was equal rights for women.

-As little as 60 years ago, in the McCarthy era, being a leftist or socialist was "crimethink" and people lost their jobs and/or were jailed because of it.

I do want diversity of opinion because I believe in the values of the Enlightenment, which include the ability to openly voice dissent without fear of reprisal and I have the strength of character to listen to the beliefs of others without feeling threatened; in short, I want diversity of opinion because I am a liberal.

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