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The Google-Facebook Duopoly Threatens Diversity of Thought

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Re: The Google-Facebook Duopoly Threatens Diversity of Thought

#11

Post by debt »

Journalism is dead. We can't, in near real time, detangle the complexities of the plans of large entities such as governments/corporations and the effects of their policies. That's typically what journalists were really good at.

That's the real problem.

Colorful thought and artful diversity is the spice of life, but priority number one is consumer safety.

We just need to know what's going on!

It's been on the downward trend towards the grave for a very, very long time. Facebook/Google are simply nails on the coffin.

Re: The Google-Facebook Duopoly Threatens Diversity of Thought

#12

Post by trendia »

The Justice Dept has a very strict definition of monopoly [0] -- it requires both 1) the ability to raise prices profitably above that in a competitive market, and 2) anticompetitive conduct.

That means that Google receiving 90% of all searches wouldn't automatically imply market power or anti-competitive conduct, and I can't see how Google or Facebook can raise their prices higher than a "competitive market" if they don't charge anything for their product.

How would a competitive market in search and social networking even look?

[0] https://www.justice.gov/atr/competition-and-monopoly-single-...

Re: The Google-Facebook Duopoly Threatens Diversity of Thought

#13

Post by humanrebar »

This is the first I heard of the Prager U parental filtering and demonetization.

The videos are certainly conservative, both culturally and economically, but the ones I've seen aren't objectionable in any way. In many ways, they are less objectionable than a lot that goes out over the AM radio bands in the U.S.

Ars Technica on the story:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/10/prageru-sues-you...

Best I can find of a response from Google:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/heres-googles-resp...

Re: The Google-Facebook Duopoly Threatens Diversity of Thought

#14

Post by dominotw »

trendia wrote: post #12

The Justice Dept has a very strict definition of monopoly [0] -- it requires both 1) the ability to raise prices profitably above that in a competitive market, and 2) anticompetitive conduct. That means that Google receiving 90% of all searches wouldn't automatically imply market power or anti-competitive conduct, and I can't see how Google or Facebook can raise their prices higher than a "competitive market" if they…

How is comcast not a monopoly? That was my only choice when I lived chicago.

Re: The Google-Facebook Duopoly Threatens Diversity of Thought

#15

Post by mbillie1 »

trendia wrote: post #12

The Justice Dept has a very strict definition of monopoly [0] -- it requires both 1) the ability to raise prices profitably above that in a competitive market, and 2) anticompetitive conduct. That means that Google receiving 90% of all searches wouldn't automatically imply market power or anti-competitive conduct, and I can't see how Google or Facebook can raise their prices higher than a "competitive market" if they…

Their product is the advertising platform, so the price-raising should be evaluated there. Their consumer "products" eg newsfeed, mail, messenger, search etc are just mechanisms for demographic gathering for the purposes of advertisement sales, or for direct advertisement delivery.

Re: The Google-Facebook Duopoly Threatens Diversity of Thought

#16

Post by humanrebar »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #4

The solution really is a revitalization of antitrust policy. The reason markets work is because participants in them are bound to a 'race to the bottom' with many other participants doing the same thing. When companies aren't forced to race to the bottom against each other, the conditions of authoritarianism rise. Authoritarian structures don't have to necessarily come from government - monopolies, oligopolies and im…

> The question is have we reached a point where technology and globalization provide such enormous returns to the economies of scale that we can't go back or is all this corporate concentration just due to a lack of government enforcement?

At some point, America decided that only horizontal monopolies counted, not vertical ones.

Many of our concerns about antitrust would be assuaged if regulators started keeping separate markets separate. Like banning content distributors from buying content creators. Or requiring platforms to provide third-party-friendly APIs. Microsoft got in trouble for trying to vertically integrate its browser into its operating system. But Facebook isn't likewise called to task for treating Facebook live streams differently than others.

Re: The Google-Facebook Duopoly Threatens Diversity of Thought

#17

Post by guelo »

Right wing propaganda is so strong and coordinated these days that they can develop a new goal and drive a single message repeatedly across multiple platforms for months or years. This attack on Google is a new right wing message developed this year but they just keep hammering at it across all their channels tailoring their argument to the different audiences and continuously building mind share and momentum.

Re: The Google-Facebook Duopoly Threatens Diversity of Thought

#18

Post by ucaetano »

mbillie1 wrote: post #15
trendia wrote: post #12

The Justice Dept has a very strict definition of monopoly [0] -- it requires both 1) the ability to raise prices profitably above that in a competitive market, and 2) anticompetitive conduct. That means that Google receiving 90% of all searches wouldn't automatically imply market power or anti-competitive conduct, and I can't see how Google or Facebook can raise their prices higher than a "competitive market" if they…

Their product is the advertising platform, so the price-raising should be evaluated there. Their consumer "products" eg newsfeed, mail, messenger, search etc are just mechanisms for demographic gathering for the purposes of advertisement sales, or for direct advertisement delivery.

CPAs have been going down since forever. So yep, no monopoly here, plenty of competition.

People who talk about FB or Google "monopoly" don't understand what a monopoly is.

Re: The Google-Facebook Duopoly Threatens Diversity of Thought

#19

Post by colordrops »

guelo wrote: post #17

Right wing propaganda is so strong and coordinated these days that they can develop a new goal and drive a single message repeatedly across multiple platforms for months or years. This attack on Google is a new right wing message developed this year but they just keep hammering at it across all their channels tailoring their argument to the different audiences and continuously building mind share and momentum.

Both right and left wing propaganda is strong and coordinated these days. I can't say anything that doesn't toe the line with either side and not have them look at me like I'm an asshole. I've been called both a socialist welfare state supporter and a reactionary corporate feudalist. Which is it folks. The division is worse than it ever was in my lifetime.

Re: The Google-Facebook Duopoly Threatens Diversity of Thought

#20

Post by sremani »

colordrops wrote: post #19
guelo wrote: post #17

Right wing propaganda is so strong and coordinated these days that they can develop a new goal and drive a single message repeatedly across multiple platforms for months or years. This attack on Google is a new right wing message developed this year but they just keep hammering at it across all their channels tailoring their argument to the different audiences and continuously building mind share and momentum.

Both right and left wing propaganda is strong and coordinated these days. I can't say anything that doesn't toe the line with either side and not have them look at me like I'm an asshole. I've been called both a socialist welfare state supporter and a reactionary corporate feudalist. Which is it folks. The division is worse than it ever was in my lifetime.

When you refuse to choose between stalin and hitler, you will have the unique opportunity to be called a nazi and communist at the same time...

strange times!

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