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WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

reuters.com

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Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#171

Post by JepZ »

StavrosK wrote: post #85
cJ0th wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My advice would be Xmpp with OMEMO encryption. On mobile, you can get the Conversations App for Android via Fdroid (no google play!), for the iPhone there is Chatsecure and on the Desktop you can use Gajim. The advantage over Signal would be that 1.) you don't have to share your telephone number and 2.) you don't rely on a single service provider/accounts are decentralized (there are various services for free and pai…

I didn't downvote you, but I imagine the counterpoint goes something like "The advantage of Signal over your solution is that more than 3% of the population can set it up".

The 3% get a little larger when you give them this link (German) ;-)

https://www.jabber.de/clients/android-ios/conversations-guid...

But I agree: it should be even simpler to set up.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#172

Post by microtonal »

Jdam wrote: post #151
RestlessMind wrote: post #99

EU is one of my best hopes when it comes to privacy and really wish they start going after tech behemoths. I have given up on US authorities doing anything to reign them in. And policies in other significant countries (eg. China) would be even worse for user privacy.

This is just protectionism at its finest. You better don’t think that would happen if FB was a french company. The industrial-governmental-complex is stronger in France than anywhere else in the western world.

We hear this argument over and over again. See, they want Apple and Starbucks to pay taxes despite special arrangements because protectionism. Guess what, they are now going after Ikea, a large company from the European Union.

CNBC compiled a lost of fines handed out by the EU and some of the largest ones concern companies from the EU:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/27/the-largest-fines-dished-out...

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#173

Post by cJ0th »

antihero wrote: post #167
cJ0th wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My advice would be Xmpp with OMEMO encryption. On mobile, you can get the Conversations App for Android via Fdroid (no google play!), for the iPhone there is Chatsecure and on the Desktop you can use Gajim. The advantage over Signal would be that 1.) you don't have to share your telephone number and 2.) you don't rely on a single service provider/accounts are decentralized (there are various services for free and pai…

Because we're talking about the people we know day to day, not a bunch of people who are interested in installing obscure apps. Last time I tried chatsecure a few months ago it was buggy and difficult to find a server to sign up to that supported the bizarrely difficult to navigate XMPP extensions that allow you maybe sort of know if it's all working properly. So yes maybe for ultra secure comms with specific parties…

I can't say anything about chatsecure but Conversations is pretty user-friendly. You may have to show a non-techy once how you compare fingerprints but other than that it's pretty straight forward.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#174

Post by i_am_nomad »

geofft wrote: post #159
Jdam wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just protectionism at its finest. You better don’t think that would happen if FB was a french company. The industrial-governmental-complex is stronger in France than anywhere else in the western world.

That seems reasonable - as long as the US maintains its protectionist stance of not letting people born in France compete for jobs on a level playing field with people born in the US, why should France allow employers in the US to compete on a level playing field with employers in France? (Are you counting protectionist immigration laws as part of countries' industrial-governmental complexes?)

I would argue that immigration laws are not strictly economic or commercial policies. You’re drawing a false equivalence.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#175

Post by cJ0th »

JepZ wrote: post #163
cJ0th wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My advice would be Xmpp with OMEMO encryption. On mobile, you can get the Conversations App for Android via Fdroid (no google play!), for the iPhone there is Chatsecure and on the Desktop you can use Gajim. The advantage over Signal would be that 1.) you don't have to share your telephone number and 2.) you don't rely on a single service provider/accounts are decentralized (there are various services for free and pai…

Actually, I use XMPP+OMEMO for 90% of my messaging and Conversations (Android App) is superb. Sadly Chatsecure seems to be a little more demanding in terms of server support (requires some odd Push Notification extension) and the desktop clients need some more love too (I use Gajim and Pidgin so far). Overall, I feel much better than to use some data hungry WhatsApp or some walled garden Signal app. Yes, it is a litt…

> Yes, it is a little more complicated to setup, but in the end it works as good as the others

And this is quite literally true. It really only is a little more complicated. This is not a handwaving statement. You don't need any technical know-how to get Conversations running. It's only the fingerprint thing you have to explain to people who are not tech-savvy. But if you hit the right tone they'll have no problem with that either.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#176

Post by [deleted] »

hartator wrote: post #145
toomuchtodo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad news friend. You have to comply with GDPR if any of your users are in the EU, even if they were originally not in the EU when they signed up. Your user merely needs to be a EU resident. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula... --- The regulation applies if the data controller (an organization that collects data from EU residents) or processor (an organization that processes data on behalf o…

If you don't have an organization in EU, they can't sue you in the U.S. because it's allowed here. It's like the U.S. trying to sue local Amsterdam pot shop because they sell drugs to U.S. residents.

[deleted]

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#177

Post by ptaipale »

gradys wrote: post #134
RestlessMind wrote: post #99

EU is one of my best hopes when it comes to privacy and really wish they start going after tech behemoths. I have given up on US authorities doing anything to reign them in. And policies in other significant countries (eg. China) would be even worse for user privacy.

I'm torn on this. On the one hand, I agree, the EU legislates privacy to a degree that no other political entity does as far as I'm aware, but on the other hand, they often do so with poorly designed policies. As an example, I'd point to the cookie notices that appear on almost every major website, which must have absorbed, globally, many careers worth of man-hours to implement while offering virtually no real-world…

I'm beyond "informed" opinions, I only can offer infected ones. The cookie directive is an infuriating irritant which is completely counter-productive.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#178

Post by bojan »

gradys wrote: post #134
RestlessMind wrote: post #99

EU is one of my best hopes when it comes to privacy and really wish they start going after tech behemoths. I have given up on US authorities doing anything to reign them in. And policies in other significant countries (eg. China) would be even worse for user privacy.

I'm torn on this. On the one hand, I agree, the EU legislates privacy to a degree that no other political entity does as far as I'm aware, but on the other hand, they often do so with poorly designed policies. As an example, I'd point to the cookie notices that appear on almost every major website, which must have absorbed, globally, many careers worth of man-hours to implement while offering virtually no real-world…

Their solutions are not perfect as they are the result of a multi-party compromise (as in the end, they should be). Keep in mind that the cookie law is by far the worst example, and definitely not the average.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#179

Post by DannyBee »

qubex wrote: post #157
DannyBee wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you'll see FB/others decide the EU isn't worth it over time. It's interesting how many people here believe that there is no other possibility other than "we get what we want to happen". Your faith is, IMHO, misplaced. There are many cases in history where other companies decided it wasn't worth the cost of doing business in certain countries. Or they just successfully coopted the governments!

Are you mad? Miss out on a market of 740+ million of the world's richest consumers, twice the size of the US, the bulk of the western world and most of the developed economies on the planet?? No, that's absolutely not going to happen. Additionally, they'd never risk withdrawing from a market and letting a local competitor develop, take hold, expand, and attack them on home turf. Look at social networks and search eng…

"EDIT: I see you are fairly highly placed in Google. I'm quite surprised if you genuinely think what you wrote, given the raw numbers you must surely know, but given your legal training, I am not at all surprised that you would posture as if you were unaware of this."

Character assassination, awesome!

Please leave the company i work for this out of this, always. I never speak for my company on hacker news unless i say otherwise. I've been very clear and consistent about that. Thanks!

However, given the personal attack, i'm done. This kind of stupid bullshit is one reason i've stopped contributing as much lately.

It's nice for you to present your opinion as if it was the only true possibility and everyone else is an idiot. It's not, however, a great way to foster a discussion. Tacking on a personal attack makes it even more welcoming.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#180

Post by jamiequint »

RestlessMind wrote: post #99

EU is one of my best hopes when it comes to privacy and really wish they start going after tech behemoths. I have given up on US authorities doing anything to reign them in. And policies in other significant countries (eg. China) would be even worse for user privacy.

Isn't your best choice when it comes to privacy to choose which services to use and which ones not to use, rather than relying on your government dictate rules they don't fully understand to companies which may put their entire business at risk?

In other words, in terms of things you care about absolute data privacy may be #1 on your list, others may be willing to accept less privacy for an internet that can continue to exist on an ad supported business model. Why should you have your way (enforced by the government) and others not get their way. We already have strong disclosure laws in both the US and Europe about data use, and at the end of the day it's your choice.

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