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We need internet that isn't owned by big telecom

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Re: We need internet that isn't owned by big telecom

#101
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Round trip to a satellite will never rival fiber. Especially the way modern web apps are built inefficiently

> SpaceX expects its own latencies to be between 25 and 35ms [0] There is a huge difference in latency between existing satellite internet services and what spacex is looking to launch. [0]: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/11/space...

[deleted]

Re: We need internet that isn't owned by big telecom

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Because people love cheap and free stuff. Non NN ISPs will be cheaper and consumers couldn’t care less as long as they get their Netflix, which the will.

A global internet does not need to be consumer oriented.

The Internet that serves consumers does.

Re: We need internet that isn't owned by big telecom

#103
post #93
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have it exactly backwards, By privatizing, Trump will increase the size of the government. After the USSR collapsed and Chicago style economists pilfered the place, the size of the government went up! You ended up with more bureaucrats than ever. Why? Because when you add markets to things that didn't have markets, you add regulators and all sorts of other score keeping to make sure the markets function. It is fa…

Surely you're the one getting this backwards somehow? You're talking about privatisation, but the OP discusses deregulation. You don't mean to say that deregulation leads to more regulation, do you? EDIT: Also, your thesis that using markets is inefficient due to more regulation, it sounds rather that you mean to say that more regulation is inefficient. How is this a failure of the market and not the state?

Deregulation often leads to more regulation. By allowing a whole class of actions to happen, you will find exceptions will start popping up and laws will be written to patch market failings.

If you allow X, you will find overtime it will turn into 100 different 'Allow X but' rules.

Example, Cable companies can now charge more for Netflix, then netflix lobbies and gets a new regulation 'Can charge more for traffic Except by accredited content providers'.

On and on exceptions will be lobbied and won and eventually you end up with more regulations and a larger government administering those regulations.

Net neutrality is a far more efficient regulation.

Re: We need internet that isn't owned by big telecom

#104
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But now you're listing places where public transit actually works and lots of people use it. It fails in SF because it's chicken and egg. It doesn’t work well in NYC and DC. Here in DC, lines have been shut down for weeks at a time due to deferred maintenance. Several lines are completely unable to keep their scheduled time. The New Carrollton to Foggy Bottom trip is listed on the timetable at 36 minutes. (It used…

> Here in DC, lines have been shut down for weeks at a time due to deferred maintenance. Several lines are completely unable to keep their scheduled time. DC is uniquely screwed because the city is under the jurisdiction of the federal Congress, so you have the problem of representatives elected by far away constituents not caring even when the subway has high usage. > If you were proposing to have the Barcelona gove…

These are good points. I like the idea of municipal fiber in theory. In particular, I think Stockholm's model of a publicly-owned but otherwise loosely regulated dark-fiber utility is the right one as a theoretical matter. I just think many big U.S. cities lack the political discipline necessary to implement such a policy properly.

Re: We need internet that isn't owned by big telecom

#105
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Round trip to a satellite will never rival fiber. Especially the way modern web apps are built inefficiently

> SpaceX expects its own latencies to be between 25 and 35ms [0] There is a huge difference in latency between existing satellite internet services and what spacex is looking to launch. [0]: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/11/space...

It sounda similar to fiber latency. Ive never thought about this before but the amount of time for a round trip to a leo satellite, shouldnt that be in the range of 10 m/s. (1200 km / 300,000 km/ s) = 4 m/s x 2 i wonder whats the complete breakdown, is most of it inter satellite optical communication? Does this offset the additional 8 ms because its a simplified topology?

Re: We need internet that isn't owned by big telecom

#106

An Internet that is completely decentralized and independent of gatekeepers is the only long-term hope that I can see, and it's a very remote hope at that. There are too many powerful, vested interests in controlling people and their communication to let that happen. The only reason the Internet was ever as free as it was that it slipped under the radar of those very interests and wasn't taken seriously enough at fir…

> An Internet that is completely decentralized and > independent of gatekeepers is the only long-term > hope that I can see, and it's a very remote hope at that.

How do you see this happening? Some big interconnected mesh network? At some point there needs to be a backbone connection right? Or do I misunderstand?

I, personally, could go to Level 3 and get my own fiber circuit in my house for around $1700/month and act as a gateway for all my neighboring houses but then aren't I subject to laws/rules that big ISP's are?

Re: We need internet that isn't owned by big telecom

#107
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At some point it is never going to be profitable to compete; and in some places it will never be profitable to even build the infrastructure in the first place. If there are no regulations here's how it goes: first ISPs compete in urban areas, this is very profitable with traditional active fiber to the building and ethernet to each apartment. It takes like $50 CAPEX per customer. But at some point as competition i…

As a little experiment, I picked a random dot in the middle of Nevada--northern Nevada, far away from Las Vegas. I landed on this house: . This looks pretty rural to me. Then I went to their telco and the first thing on the homepage was a link to check for fiber availability. Fiber is available for this home. You might have to rethink your plan for competition. I'm guessing the result won't be too different for Missi…

Verizon's site will say that Fios is available where I used to live in Haymarket VA, but when I call them up and ask for it, they say it was an error on their site.

Re: We need internet that isn't owned by big telecom

#108
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm don't think that's true. US Internet[0] here in Minneapolis is privately-funded and they've been slowly building out an in-ground FTTP network. It's cheap (50Mb/$35, 100Mb/$45, 1Gb/$70, no contract), reliable, and fast. They buy transit from a couple of different providers[1] and are co-located in an exchange downtown (MICE/Cologix) that's got the usual suspects like Google and Netflix. I think the key is that th…

The US Internet model of "growing responsibly" in response to demand works. That model is also illegal in nearly every U.S. city. Municipalities require you to cover every neighborhood within some usually comically short time frame like 5 years. Indeed, US Internet has come under fire for this: http://www.citypages.com/news/us-internet-appears-to-be-redl... .

> Municipalities require you to cover every neighborhood within some usually comically short time frame like 5 years.

That is pretty unfortunate, because the USI model definitely seems to be working.

I don't buy the Powderhorn "redlining", their COO has been upfront about that neighborhood being on their map and the biggest issue with rolling out there has been finding a property for their network gear (which they finally seem to have found this year)[0]. Although I do get that it would be frustrating living there and watching the coverage map fill in around you.

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/Minneapolis/comments/6oh5la/looks_l...

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