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What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

nytimes.com

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Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#121

Post by Tepix »

Shinchy wrote: post #115
mikepavone wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This gets mentioned a lot, but I think the point is really over stated. First, there's a huge amount of room for growth in electric vehicle adoption even if we assume that EVs are a non-starter for people who park on the street at night. The problem is worth solving, but we're no where near the point in which it's the main obstacle to further adoption. Second, cars that are being used will generally spend a fair bit…

Let me put it this way, I looked at buying an Electric Car but I live in a house with no driveway so there is no way I can ever own one. I would never risk the idea of driving to a supermarket hoping there is a free charging port for my car, just in case there isn't any free - it's not like I can just queue up the car. It's a huge fundamental hurdle and one that until solved will stop me from ever buying an Electric…

In Germany (and elsewhere) the electric utility companies are working on converting street lanterns into car charging stations. This will enable people to charge their cars when parking near their homes.

Another solution (for some) would be to have a charging port in your parking lot at work.

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#122

Post by ju-st »

ianai wrote: post #22
benjaminl wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost all of that is the battery. Even though batteries are coming down in price, they are still very expensive. For example GM’s list price for the Bolt battery is $15,734. Now this is the replacement cost Bolt owners pay for a new battery not the actual cost, but it gives an indication of their cost. https://electrek.co/2017/06/12/gm-bolt-ev-battery-pack-price...

How much power does the electric motor need? -edit- found it https://www.quora.com/How-much-power-is-required-by-the-moto... 80kw to accelerate and 1 kw to maintain. -edit 2- how come no ones put 3 solar panels on top of an EV? Three of the following could output 1 kw and fit in the space available. http://www.solarwholesale.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Sil... Seems like an obvious for electric semis where there’s…

1kw to maintain 5kmph perhaps. To maintain 100-120kmph a car needs around 20kw. The first gen EVs like Renault Zoe have a ~24kwH battery and a real world range of ~100km.

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#123

Post by ju-st »

testestx wrote: post #86
Doxin wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern gas car engines are already pretty much inaudible over tire noise at slowish speeds. Electric cars don't make any less tire noise. People will manage without artificially adding sounds to electric vehicles.

Car sounds are important for small children and animals in the street though.

That's why many/most EVs have loudspeakers which make "electric car noises" below 20-30kmph. Above that the tire noise becomes dominant and there is no noise level difference between EV and ICE.

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#125

Post by Doxin »

testestx wrote: post #86
Doxin wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern gas car engines are already pretty much inaudible over tire noise at slowish speeds. Electric cars don't make any less tire noise. People will manage without artificially adding sounds to electric vehicles.

Car sounds are important for small children and animals in the street though.

And as I've stated at those speeds tire noise is dominating the overal sound for most cars already.

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#126

Post by IndrekR »

mamon wrote: post #59
IndrekR wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't your (or shared) car go and charge itself while you are not using it?

You are confusing electric vehicles with self-driving ones.

Not confusing. It is so much easier to make electric vehicles self-driving compared to the ICE vehicles. It may be economically feasible to do so in not so distant future. Real estate, including parking spaces is expensive. There was a good Freakonomics episode about that few years ago [1].

Main barriers to self-driving will soon be juridical, not technological. This is not just random internet rambling. I'm an engineer and have been working on commercial autonomous vehicle subsystems for a while. I can with full confidence say that the technology is already there.

[1] http://freakonomics.com/podcast/parking-is-hell-a-new-freako...

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#127

Post by mac01021 »

wojt_eu wrote: post #45
_greim_ wrote: post #15

> Drivers will have to shed their attachment to the sound, smell and feel of gas-powered engines. I for one will not feel the least bit sad when continuous, smooth acceleration becomes the norm, and lurchy, awkward automatic transmissions fade into distant memory. I'll probably feel slightly nostalgic about the sound and smell of fuel-burning cars someday, but it won't inform my buying choices in the slightest.

I already feel nostalgic about gas-powered cars, their place is alongside steam locomotives as movie props and tourist attractions. Imagine people doing gas-punk cosplay in a couple of decades.

> Imagine people doing gas-punk cosplay in a couple of decades.

Like some of those "Mad Max" movies?

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#128

Post by peterwwillis »

f_allwein wrote: post #113

How about: We need to shift from individual car ownership to more public transport? Sure it will be great if cars turn electric, but that does not solve issues like crowded streets etc. This would be partly addressed if cars were self driving and shared, i.e. would spend less time standing around unused. Nevertheless, I assume (=don't have data) that public transport would be much more efficient than electric cars in…

It's clear that buses are vastly more efficient in terms of moving large numbers of people around, and so ride sharing alone (even automated) will just continue to tie up traffic. At a point, uber and lyft will have to introduce buses in order to keep their single-use services attractive. But, as long as there is private ownership, we won't have wide adoption of public transportation.

Everywhere in the world I have traveled, I have noticed that usually 1) public transportation is limited only to a town/city, and 2) private buses to move between cities/provinces are limited by market forces, and thus put a penalty on people living farther from economic drivers. Which forces people in remote areas, who on average make less money, to own cars to get to jobs [which robs them of time and money they could be investing in their future etc].

The only way to change the inequality of people getting to jobs/goods/services is to remove private car ownership and institute nation-wide public transportation, and subsidize the more expensive parts of the network. Not only would this be cheaper overall and more efficient overall, it would raise the GDP, reduce pollution, reduce debt, reduce traffic fatalities, and increase upward mobility.

People think cars give them freedom, but they never think about the societal cost.

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#129

Post by ahartmetz »

kuro68k wrote: post #98
tomohawk wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half the range is really a non-starter. And is that range a "best case" range with ideal weather and new batteries and all down hill, or is that a worst case when its 20 below and the batteries are 5 years old? What's the minimum guaranteed range? Having to have the car tied up to a charging station for long periods of time just to do normal kinds of around-the-town kinds of trips - also a non-starter. Can you imagin…

I am on my second Nissan Leaf and can tell you that your concerns are largely unfounded. Most charging is opportunistic, and when you do need to do a big evacuation a Tesla sized battery can last longer than you can safely drive. In fact in the EU legal limits on commercial drivers are already exceeded by battery tech. As for wearing out, taxi companies with leafs have over 200k on the packs and they are still good.…

"When you do need to do a big evacuation a Tesla sized battery can last longer than you can safely drive"

This is plainly wrong. Let's say it's a Tesla Model S which has a real world range of about 400 km. That is about four hours of driving. I sometimes drive 600 km easily, with one longer break to eat and maybe a few shorters breaks to pee or just get out of the car and walk around a bit.

Your other statements are also somewhat exaggerated, see for example: https://insideevs.com/exclusive-interview-with-steve-marsh-a...

  > 150k miles
  > 50% capacity
  > not used in the cold anymore

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#130

Post by Shivetya »

tomohawk wrote: post #92
paol wrote: post #33

These articles keep omitting a pretty big barrier to adoption: street parking. (Maybe it's a function of US being suburb-centric? But at least the New York Times ought to know better.) One of 2 things needs to happen, either charging technology improves to the point where you can charge at a gas station in a span of time comparable to refueling a conventional car, or all street parking spots need to be fitted with ch…

Half the range is really a non-starter. And is that range a "best case" range with ideal weather and new batteries and all down hill, or is that a worst case when its 20 below and the batteries are 5 years old? What's the minimum guaranteed range? Having to have the car tied up to a charging station for long periods of time just to do normal kinds of around-the-town kinds of trips - also a non-starter. Can you imagin…

worse, the range issue is exaggerated in winter. all these range numbers are for mild and warm weather. people need to understand how much range you lose in winter which only gets worse the more internal heat you use.

range > charge times > cost. of the first two I am not sure which is easier. besides the cost difference of the power trains there is a serious weight difference as well that was no addressed

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