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Since 1700, Wine Glasses Have Gotten 7 Times Bigger

atlasobscura.com

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Re: Since 1700, Wine Glasses Have Gotten 7 Times Bigger

#51

Post by r00fus »

abalone wrote: post #26
mattzito wrote: post #10

> These days, the average British pour of wine is 250 milliliters, “larger than the mean capacity of wine glasses available in the 1980s,” writes Marteau. Wow that’s a big pour - you expect to get 4-5 glasses of wine out of a standard 750ml bottle, potentially a little more than that if you’re ordering by the glass in a restaurant.

The article misquotes its source. The study states "wine is increasingly served in 250 mL servings" (emphasis mine), not that the average pour size has become 250ml! 250ml is a typical carafe size. Carafes are a more common way to serve wine in Europe, compared to ordering two separate glasses.

Carafes are usually house wine though. Hard to get carafe sizing for a higher end wine.

Re: Since 1700, Wine Glasses Have Gotten 7 Times Bigger

#53

Post by rsynnott »

excitom wrote: post #14

Back in the day a Royal Navy sailor's daily ration of beer was a gallon, or a half pint of 115 proof rum. I don't think the dainty wineglasses are a good indication of volume consumed.

If a sailor died of cirrhosis at 40, though, the Navy wasn’t too bothered. Alcohol is more of a heath threat these days partially because consumption has tended to rise, but also because people aren’t dying of other things as much.

Re: Since 1700, Wine Glasses Have Gotten 7 Times Bigger

#54

Post by rsynnott »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #41
wott wrote: post #37

It is always funny to see Americans using huge (as in HUGE) glasses to drink wine, believing that it is the French distinguished way of tasting wine, and being disappointed when they discover that French people just use regular/smallish glasses in any context. No, it is just Americans confusing 'big' for 'refined' as usual :-) (and bigger for more refined, and even bigger for super classy).

Most people in the US go to a specialty retailer if they need wine glasses, and a nice one has Riedel or something comparable. The sales associate will invariably say "oh this is made to enjoy red Bordeauxs, this one is for white Burgundies, etc, etc" and they will be nudged to go fancy. I don't know if they go in with the expressed plan to buy an enormous wine glass set, but just look at https://www.riedel.com/resta…

> Also, I think it's fair to point out Riedel is European and has been around for 250 years.

It’s fairly common for companies to make different things for different markets, though. GM is American, and a century or so old, but didn’t exactly sell many Opel Corsas in the US, say. (For the sake of pedanticism, as of this year Opel is no longer a GM brand, but anyway...)

Re: Since 1700, Wine Glasses Have Gotten 7 Times Bigger

#55

Post by microcolonel »

> For regulators keeping a worried eye on increased drinking, Marteau suggests encouraging the use of smaller glasses. After all, water is a bit safer to drink these days.

Can you please stay out of it? Just because port glasses from the 1700s have less overall volume than tasting glasses from the 2010s, doesn't mean it's anyone's job to say how big they should be. At most, the volume of the pour has increased by maybe a factor of four, while (compared to the wine that went in the 60ml glasses) the alcohol content has decreased in a single step, from fortified to straight.

Re: Since 1700, Wine Glasses Have Gotten 7 Times Bigger

#56

Post by microcolonel »

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #36
justaaron wrote: post #24

Why has no one mentioned that "wine" to a Brit in 1700 meant FORTIFIED wine like Port wine or Sherry (aka 18-20% alcohol instead of 11-15%)? The fortification of Port wine is legendarily attributed to both British tastes for sweet or "stalled mid fermentation by addition of spirits" wine, and the voyage by sea, in which normal wines suffered excessively from spoilage etc.

But that's just a 1.5x in potency. Doesn't explain the 7x increase in size.

The increase in the volume poured is actually more like 4x, the article clearly explains that the glassware tax encouraged, in the region, glassware which was meant to be filled close to the brim, while modern glassware is meant to be filled to a about a third (or if you're not at a dive, often a quarter) full. Furthermore, the difference in sugar content (and overall in non-water contents) is almost as important as ethanol's share of the volume.

Re: Since 1700, Wine Glasses Have Gotten 7 Times Bigger

#57

Post by microcolonel »

astura wrote: post #48
snug wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true from your youth, but things are getting smaller from a decade ago, candy[0], chips, fountain drinks, etc. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/24/sweets-are-...

See: https://consumerist.com/tag/grocery-shrink-ray-2/

I saw the Toblerone there and something clicked in my head. A friend brought back a large Toblerone from the UK (I live in Canada) and I noticed that there were rather large gaps between the peaks. The gaps between the peaks on a Toblerone sold here in Toronto are too small to fit a child's finger.

Re: Since 1700, Wine Glasses Have Gotten 7 Times Bigger

#58

Post by freetime2 »

wott wrote: post #37

It is always funny to see Americans using huge (as in HUGE) glasses to drink wine, believing that it is the French distinguished way of tasting wine, and being disappointed when they discover that French people just use regular/smallish glasses in any context. No, it is just Americans confusing 'big' for 'refined' as usual :-) (and bigger for more refined, and even bigger for super classy).

I think the large wine glasses have less to do with imitating the French, and more to do with the belief that they enhance the experience of drinking red wines.

Also, you seem to be suggesting here that since the French don't do it, then it isn't refined. Perhaps you are the one who is confused about the definition of "refined"?

Re: Since 1700, Wine Glasses Have Gotten 7 Times Bigger

#59

Post by wahern »

jdonaldson wrote: post #47

I'll start off echoing what others have been saying... ports and madeiras were more popular. They resisted spoiling due to the high alcohol/sugar content. They can kick like a mule, so you can't just down 250ML in a sitting. Wine glasses are also fragile. A lot of places serve wine in common water glasses of roughly the same size. Italians have been doing that forever. Bigger glasses are more fragile, but they greatl…

FWIW, Sercial (dry) and Verdelho (medium-dry) Madeiras, sporting less sugar and nice acidity, can be quite quaffable. The acidity also helps, I think, to mask the stronger alcohol content. Those styles are really hard to find, though, as both cheap and expense Madeiras tend to be of the Malmsey style and only slightly less cloying than Port. The second most common style is Boal, which is less sweeter than Malmsey but lacks the acidity.

Re: Since 1700, Wine Glasses Have Gotten 7 Times Bigger

#60

Post by jdietrich »

emrekzd wrote: post #44

Not sure about wine glasses but universities have at least 7 times more incentive to publish BS papers these days. >> "These days, the average British pour of wine is 250 milliliters". According to data collected from dive bars. And I'm serious, see the article they referenced in the paper: https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Article/2014/10/24/Direc... Modern wine glasses are designed for drinking experience and you…

> According to data collected from dive bars.

How do you know? A British pub can be anything from a squalid shabeen to a comfortable community space to a restaurant that happens to sell beer.

In the UK, wine by the glass can only be legally served in measures of 125ml, 175ml or multiples thereof. The vast majority of pubs today only sell 175ml and 250ml measures.

A few decades ago, asking for "a glass of red wine" would have got you a 125ml glass unless you specifically asked for a large glass, which would be 175ml. Gradually, the default moved to 175ml and the 125ml "small" glass was phased out in favour of the 250ml "large" glass, with 175ml becoming the new "small".

It's abundantly clear that there's been a vast increase in the quantities of wine drunk over the past few decades. Wine consumption has contributed to the legitimisation of heavy drinking amongst the middle-aged and middle-class. Drinking several large glasses of wine doesn't carry the same stigma as drinking several pints of strong beer. As a result, we've seen a quadrupling of chronic liver disease, with the increase mainly being seen in middle-aged, middle-class and disproportionately female drinkers.

https://www.gov.uk/weights-measures-and-packaging-the-law/sp... https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Article/2008/06/27/Major...

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