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Since 1700, Wine Glasses Have Gotten 7 Times Bigger

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Re: Since 1700, Wine Glasses Have Gotten 7 Times Bigger

#41

Post by throwaway5752 »

wott wrote: post #37

It is always funny to see Americans using huge (as in HUGE) glasses to drink wine, believing that it is the French distinguished way of tasting wine, and being disappointed when they discover that French people just use regular/smallish glasses in any context. No, it is just Americans confusing 'big' for 'refined' as usual :-) (and bigger for more refined, and even bigger for super classy).

Most people in the US go to a specialty retailer if they need wine glasses, and a nice one has Riedel or something comparable. The sales associate will invariably say "oh this is made to enjoy red Bordeauxs, this one is for white Burgundies, etc, etc" and they will be nudged to go fancy. I don't know if they go in with the expressed plan to buy an enormous wine glass set, but just look at https://www.riedel.com/restaurant/collection/d/sommeliers/bo..., it's 30 oz. I think it's fair to say there is an element of industry pushing consumer demand in a more expensive direction. Also, I think it's fair to point out Riedel is European and has been around for 250 years.

Also, even if I was presented with that wine glass, I would expect nothing more than a standard pour. I don't think you're being entirely fair to Americans in this particular case (even if a number of them would be happy with a pint of wine).

Re: Since 1700, Wine Glasses Have Gotten 7 Times Bigger

#42

Post by maxxxxx »

snug wrote: post #7
maxxxxx wrote: post #6

Everything is getting much bigger. The candy in my youth was really small compared to today's bars. With ice cream it's even worse.

That may be true from your youth, but things are getting smaller from a decade ago, candy[0], chips, fountain drinks, etc. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/24/sweets-are-...

This is an interesting dynamic. First they made things much bigger and now they are trying to deliver less at the same price. It would be interesting to see how decisions for pricing and size are made.

Re: Since 1700, Wine Glasses Have Gotten 7 Times Bigger

#43

Post by joenathanone »

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #36
justaaron wrote: post #24

Why has no one mentioned that "wine" to a Brit in 1700 meant FORTIFIED wine like Port wine or Sherry (aka 18-20% alcohol instead of 11-15%)? The fortification of Port wine is legendarily attributed to both British tastes for sweet or "stalled mid fermentation by addition of spirits" wine, and the voyage by sea, in which normal wines suffered excessively from spoilage etc.

But that's just a 1.5x in potency. Doesn't explain the 7x increase in size.

It does, you don't drink liquor the same way you do wine do you?

Re: Since 1700, Wine Glasses Have Gotten 7 Times Bigger

#44

Post by emrekzd »

Not sure about wine glasses but universities have at least 7 times more incentive to publish BS papers these days.

>> "These days, the average British pour of wine is 250 milliliters".

According to data collected from dive bars. And I'm serious, see the article they referenced in the paper: https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Article/2014/10/24/Direc...

Modern wine glasses are designed for drinking experience and you are supposed to hold the glass using your fingers from it's stem. And that's exactly why you don't fill half of your glass and try to carry 250 milliliters of liquid with your fingers.

Re: Since 1700, Wine Glasses Have Gotten 7 Times Bigger

#45

Post by dragonwriter »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #41
wott wrote: post #37

It is always funny to see Americans using huge (as in HUGE) glasses to drink wine, believing that it is the French distinguished way of tasting wine, and being disappointed when they discover that French people just use regular/smallish glasses in any context. No, it is just Americans confusing 'big' for 'refined' as usual :-) (and bigger for more refined, and even bigger for super classy).

Most people in the US go to a specialty retailer if they need wine glasses, and a nice one has Riedel or something comparable. The sales associate will invariably say "oh this is made to enjoy red Bordeauxs, this one is for white Burgundies, etc, etc" and they will be nudged to go fancy. I don't know if they go in with the expressed plan to buy an enormous wine glass set, but just look at https://www.riedel.com/resta…

> Most people in the US go to a specialty retailer if they need wine glasses

[citation needed]

If I were going to bet, I'd say most purchasers of wine glasses probably do it through general retailers like Target or Amazon, not specialty retailers.

I would be less surprised if the greatest number of consumer purchases of wineglasses were from specialty retailers because the people who buy from them but more glasses per person, but I really doubt most people use a specialty retailer.

Re: Since 1700, Wine Glasses Have Gotten 7 Times Bigger

#46

Post by prawn »

wott wrote: post #37

It is always funny to see Americans using huge (as in HUGE) glasses to drink wine, believing that it is the French distinguished way of tasting wine, and being disappointed when they discover that French people just use regular/smallish glasses in any context. No, it is just Americans confusing 'big' for 'refined' as usual :-) (and bigger for more refined, and even bigger for super classy).

As with everything, it's a trend. If you served dinner with a smaller wine glass (an XL5, for example), some people would wonder if you'd missed a memo. Gets a bit silly. Larger glasses allow for more surface area, sure, but they're impractically delicate to use and clean.

But then, if you think that's silly, consider jeans. For almost everyone in a Western country, if you left the house in jeans with a really unfashionable wash (acid, stone, etc) it's likely that people would be astonished. I know circles where you'd be ridiculed for life. Not the item of clothing, the cut, cleanliness or necessarily even the colour, but just the treatment of the dyed material. We're pretty ridiculous...

Re: Since 1700, Wine Glasses Have Gotten 7 Times Bigger

#47

Post by jdonaldson »

I'll start off echoing what others have been saying... ports and madeiras were more popular. They resisted spoiling due to the high alcohol/sugar content. They can kick like a mule, so you can't just down 250ML in a sitting.

Wine glasses are also fragile. A lot of places serve wine in common water glasses of roughly the same size. Italians have been doing that forever.

Bigger glasses are more fragile, but they greatly enhance aeration and aroma. The smell of wine is over 50% of the experience for me. If i'm trying to maximize the experience of a good bottle, I'll use ridiculously large Riedel Vinum Old World glasses : https://www.amazon.com/Riedel-Veritas-World-Pinot-Glass/dp/B... They're enormous, fragile, a pain in the behind to wash. However It's tough to go back to standard wine glasses after you try one.

All in all, I would say glasses are getting bigger in some cases, but the article is totally missing the how and why of it.

Re: Since 1700, Wine Glasses Have Gotten 7 Times Bigger

#48

Post by astura »

snug wrote: post #7
maxxxxx wrote: post #6

Everything is getting much bigger. The candy in my youth was really small compared to today's bars. With ice cream it's even worse.

That may be true from your youth, but things are getting smaller from a decade ago, candy[0], chips, fountain drinks, etc. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/24/sweets-are-...

See: https://consumerist.com/tag/grocery-shrink-ray-2/

Re: Since 1700, Wine Glasses Have Gotten 7 Times Bigger

#49

Post by wahern »

lqet wrote: post #29
justaaron wrote: post #24

Why has no one mentioned that "wine" to a Brit in 1700 meant FORTIFIED wine like Port wine or Sherry (aka 18-20% alcohol instead of 11-15%)? The fortification of Port wine is legendarily attributed to both British tastes for sweet or "stalled mid fermentation by addition of spirits" wine, and the voyage by sea, in which normal wines suffered excessively from spoilage etc.

This is what I thought. I regularly enjoy a "modern" glass of wine, but for port wine, even a full shot glass is too much for me. It's just so heavy and sweet. The glasses depicted in the article seem to hold exactly the amount of port I would be able to comfortably drink in 10-20 minutes.

Have you tried a Sercial or Verdelho Madeira? Almost all Madeira sold is Malmsey, which is the sweetest. You'll sometimes find bottles of the Boal style, the next sweetest, sold as a digestif if the restaurant is a little more discerning.

But the best styles, IMO, are Sercial and Verdelho. Sercial is dry and Verdelho medium-dry[1], IMO have more fascinating flavors, and tend to be more acidic than the sweeter styles, which as a soda drinker I especially like. Both are really good for extended sessions as they're not nearly as cloying as Port. And the Sercial in particular suitable for drinking by the glassful with dinner if you care to splurge.

And one of the greatest things about Madeira is that it's already completely oxidized. Opinions very, but as for myself I still enjoy bottles of Madeira that I opened years ago. By contrast, IME an opened bottle of Tawny Port starts to lose its punch after a week or so (on the outside). This is why you can still buy Madeira from the 1800s and even 1700s and still enjoy it today. The oldest enjoyable Ports (Ruby or Tawny) tend to only go back 50 or 100 years if they've been preserved well.

If you're not a regular drinker (like me) or are the sole drinker in a household (like me), and don't enjoy hard liquor (like me), then the long shelf-life of opened bottles is really nice.

The Historic Series Madeiras from the Rare Wine Co are good exemplars of the various styles

  https://www.rarewineco.com/rare-wine-co-historic-series-madeira
I don't know if they still do, but they used to offer a 4 half bottle sample gift set.

[1] Though both still sweeter and thicker (mouth feel) than a Sherry, with less of the distilled spirits-like flavor/smell coming through--which is why I dislike Sherry.

Re: Since 1700, Wine Glasses Have Gotten 7 Times Bigger

#50

Post by r00fus »

wott wrote: post #37

It is always funny to see Americans using huge (as in HUGE) glasses to drink wine, believing that it is the French distinguished way of tasting wine, and being disappointed when they discover that French people just use regular/smallish glasses in any context. No, it is just Americans confusing 'big' for 'refined' as usual :-) (and bigger for more refined, and even bigger for super classy).

My fave is one Christmas dinner wine served with my French in-laws in duralex glasses (you know, the unbreakable ones).

Not cheap wines either :)

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