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Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

nytimes.com

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Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#131

Post by jedberg »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #87
bootcampjs wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Potentially, although do remember that card processing fees are rather high for small businesses, and every transaction that they don’t have to lose 3% or 5% of or whatever is extra money they can keep.

Unless jedberg is referring to a 3% discount as a big discount, then I think it's quite obvious that it's due to tax evasion, which would allow the merchant to provide deeper discounts. This is common in cash businesses.

Well it's $12 instead of $15, so 20% off. But keep in mind that for a small merchant, besides the 3% processing fee, there is also a base fee, and when you talk about a haircut for $15, the base fee eats up a whole lot of the profit.

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#132

Post by hkmurakami »

betterunix2 wrote: post #2

Maybe we should not have tips? There is no actual need or advantage to giving people tips, and there are plenty of countries where tipping is not common (including some where cash is still favored over electronic payments). Why not just pay people a fair wage that they can live on?

Because price obfuscation is a real operational advantage.

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#133

Post by hkmurakami »

jhpankow wrote: post #85
drdeadringer wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you mind sharing the name of the restaurant?

http://www.yayoi-us.com/california-location.html

Ah it's the Japanese chain taking its operational playbook from HQ (I think, though it'd be interesting if hey deliberately made a decision to exclude tipping)

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#134

Post by btilly »

codeka wrote: post #116
btilly wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be. But it is still incredibly frustrating to have to reward the waiter for a terrible experience and literally have nothing that you can do about it. That said, if Trump's proposed revision of regulations around tipping go through, I'm going to probably greatly cut back on tipping. It is one thing to reward the waiter. It is quite another to believe that the money is going to the owner of the restaurant.

Why is it only the server's service that you get to pay what you feel like? This steak is nice, but it's not $17 nice. I think I'll just pay $14 for it. These new tires for my car don't ride as well as the old ones. I think I'll only pay $50 for them, instead of the $75 asking price. It was a nice concert, but I don't think it was really worth the $90 I paid. I'm going to pay $50. There was a bit too much traffic on…

The difference is whether I have a contract.

If the contract has, "This is what I pay", I am willing to pay that. I agreed to it, it would be dishonest to do otherwise.

If there is no contract, I am free to choose whether or how much I pay. I err on the side of generosity. But if you spill my drink on my clothing, then fail to serve my child, then I see no reason why I should voluntarily reward your incompetence.

Incidentally even if there is a contract, you would be amazed at how much leeway there turns out to be if you have a problem.

For example if your restaurant gave me steak with Brussel sprouts served with it, I'll send it back because I'm allergic to cooked Brussel sprouts. I'm willing to pay for the meal even though I can't enjoy it, but you'd be amazed at how many restaurants will take it back, and offer me a different meal for free.

If the new tires that you just installed immediately spring a leak and I complain, you'd be amazed how many tire shops will replace them for free.

And so on. If you have a real problem with what you received, and you're polite about it, frequently establishments will try to make it right.

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#135

Post by dionidium »

greggarious wrote: post #54

Do people not carry cash? Maybe the types who have an apartment with a doorman in Manhattan don't. But I (a "millenial") often go to bars and restaurants that are cash only. Eventually, I found it was easier keep budget my "entertainment" in cash. Visually being able to see how much I have, how much I'm taking out helps. Being able to see that amount grow if I'm frugal one month feels good too. I have friends who cla…

I started carrying cash when I moved to Manhattan, because so many bodegas, street vendors, etc only accept cash for small amounts. Its convenience here far outweighs anywhere else I've lived.

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#136

Post by astura »

btilly wrote: post #124
astura wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"My steak arrived cold? Try paying your rent this month now!" Unless you are an uncaring psychopath you should pay servers in the US for bad service as well - everyone should be paid for the labor they do. If they aren't doing an adequate job they should be reprimanded or fired. That's not your job though, that's their boss's job. You don't know if they are just having an off day or the problem you had was caused by…

Your comment reminds me of http://blog.samaltman.com/e-pur-si-muove and http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html . In your books, either I agree with you, or I am an evil person. But if I take my clothing to a drycleaner, and my clothing comes back torn due to their incompetence, I'm not expected to pay for the drycleaning. Ditto if the valet damages my car. The fact that someone put time in does not entitle them to my mon…

The difference, of course, being businesses account for mistakes in their profit margins as a cost of doing business and purchase insurance for large losses. A server is an employee.

And to that: a server is very rarely personally responsible for a bad experience. Restaurant service is a team effort and the service you get merely reflects how well management functions.

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#137

Post by Chathamization »

betterunix2 wrote: post #62
btilly wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My ability to choose whether to tip less for bad service is a way to encourage servers to give good service. My experience traveling is that places like France with legally mandated tip amounts have very inconsistent service quality. It can be good, but it can also be very bad. And when a server decides to make your service bad, there is nothing that you can really do about it and nobody will care.

My experience in Japan was that the service quality was even better than in America, and if I left a tip they assumed I did not know how to do arithmetic or that I forgot my change. Culture is probably the more important factor in the quality of service, not the ability of customers to leave or refuse a tip.

That's been my experience overseas as well. In fact, I feel that the service in the U.S. is generally worse than the service I get overseas. For instance, it's not uncommon for it to take half an hour between deciding to get the check and finishing the transaction (I've taken to asking for a check mid-meal now). You also get waiters who are unhappy if you don't order enough or don't order alcohol, as well as a territorial nature when it comes to tables that can lead to inefficiencies.

So in addition to worse service, you get stick with the unnecessary burden of having to calculate a tip at the end instead of simply getting a bill and paying for it. If you're paying cash it can be difficult to end up with the exact change you need to pay the tip you want, and if you're splitting the bill it can lead to frustrations when different people want to tip different amounts (or some people calculate the tip wrong).

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#138

Post by drb91 »

santaclaus wrote: post #93
jhpankow wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish there was a list of Bay Area restaurants that don't require tipping. I discovered one last Friday and look forward to returning for the good food, service, and fair wages.

I recently went to Homestead in Oakland, which includes tips. The service was top notch, despite what the include-the-tip naysayers claim will happen.

Homestead is truly excellent!

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#139

Post by acchow »

Simon_says wrote: post #43
Glyptodon wrote: post #18

I'm reminded of a family friend telling me a story about how last year they were on day trip somewhere and a power outage happened to occur in whatever one-shop town out in the boondocks they were visiting and only one old Grandma had cash to pay for a drink or snack while the power was out, everyone else basically had to starve through lunch waiting for the power to come back on.

That's on the business. I used to be a cashier, and during power outages, we had an old carbon copier that we could use to copy credit cards and note the amount, and then enter it in manually later. You lose the instant approve/deny, but we'd also copy ids.

Square also has an offline mode. I guess you could take photos of IDs with your phone's camera too.

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#140

Post by acchow »

atonse wrote: post #120

This is the kind of reason I hate tipping culture: I never knew that you were supposed to tip the Elevator Man. Now, I've only encountered an elevator man once in my life in the US. But still. It never occurred to me that he should be tipped. And that's my main problem, the ambiguity. There's no consistency in who should get tipped and how much is a decent amount. And that kind of opaqueness always hurts everyone inv…

And the guy in the bathroom handing out paper towels. What if my wallet is in my jacket at my table?
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