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BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Starting with Bitcoin Cash

blog.bitpay.com

131–140 of 226 posts

Re: BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Starting with Bitcoin Cash

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and original vision Where in the original white-paper is the emergency difficulty adjustment? https://medium.com/@jimmysong/bitcoin-cash-difficulty-adjust... > peer-to-peer If you don't run a node, or you can't run a node because of resource requirements, you're not a peer.

The specifics of the difficulty adjustment algorithm are not critical to the original vision, but way to deflect (from the original scaling plan) to a different point. >>If you don't run a node, or you can't run a node because of resource requirements, you're not a peer. We had this discussion before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15883911

> not critical to the original vision

riiiiiiiiight.

Re: BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Starting with Bitcoin Cash

#132
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Litecoin has the same small-block commitment. > If you want centralized chinese government controlled crypto, there's bcash. That's the pot calling the kettle black. Bitcoin core is China-coin . The economics of mining mean that there will always be centralization. Mining will centralize where there is free or cheap electricity (ahem, China). Mining will centralize on the hardware of the single manufacturer with the…

Nodes define and police consensus in bitcoin, not miners.

The proof of work determines consensus.

Re: BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Starting with Bitcoin Cash

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Segwit2x was an initiative to increase the block size. It only required replacing Bitcoin Core because Bitcoin Core refused to merge a block size increase. If they had agreed to merge a block size increase, then btc1 would not have been necessary.

160,000+ bitcoin nodes are not interested in your centralization schemes. http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/softwar...

Are you Luke JR?

Re: BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Starting with Bitcoin Cash

#134
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nodes define and police consensus in bitcoin, not miners.

The proof of work determines consensus.

The nodes validate that the work has been undertaken. Therefore, it is the nodes that police and enforce consensus in bitcoin.

Re: BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Starting with Bitcoin Cash

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

160,000+ bitcoin nodes are not interested in your centralization schemes. http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/softwar...

Are you Luke JR?

No. For the record his name is Luke Dashjr. He's a bitcoin developer, as you probably know.

Re: BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Starting with Bitcoin Cash

#136
post #60

It seems clear to me at this point that the cryptocurrency revolution is now bigger than Bitcoin itself. Years ago, I saw three long-term outcomes: Bitcoin being king and altcoins dying on the vine, Bitcoin being one of innumerable blockchains in use, and cryptocurrencies in general failing to gain adoption. I'm scratching the first outcome off the list, and my pen is hovering over the last outcome.

I see 3 scenarios right now: 1. Bitcoin + lighting network solves everything 2. Bitcoin's dominance ends and a more scalable payment-focused currency start to dominate (like Dash) 3. Bitcoin remains the main store of value, and people will convert some of their bitcoins to an altocin to do daily paymnt where there will be debates on the level of decentralization, but is designed to be extremely high (Visa level) tx/s…

#3 is how I have allocated my bets as well.

Re: BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Starting with Bitcoin Cash

#137
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The proof of work determines consensus.

The nodes validate that the work has been undertaken. Therefore, it is the nodes that police and enforce consensus in bitcoin.

Since the work was undertaken in China, can you flesh out how the fact that nodes verify consensus resolves the China-coin problem? A 51% attack dictated by the chinese government would verify just fine.

Re: BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Starting with Bitcoin Cash

#138
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nodes validate that the work has been undertaken. Therefore, it is the nodes that police and enforce consensus in bitcoin.

Since the work was undertaken in China, can you flesh out how the fact that nodes verify consensus resolves the China-coin problem? A 51% attack dictated by the chinese government would verify just fine.

You fundamentally do not understand how bitcoin works. So let's talk about nodes and consensus as defined in the whitepaper and implemented in nodes. Let's start with the bitcoin white paper (https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf) :

> Satoshi from the Bitcoin white-paper chapter 12 'Conclusion' : The network is robust in its unstructured simplicity. _Nodes_ work all at once with little coordination. They do not need to be identified, since messages are not routed to any particular place and only need to be delivered on a best effort basis. _Nodes_ can leave and rejoin the network at will, accepting the proof-of-work chain as proof of what happened while they were gone. They vote with their CPU power, expressing their acceptance of valid blocks by working on extending them and rejecting invalid blocks by refusing to work on them. Any needed rules and incentives can be enforced with this _consensus mechanism_.

First, you have to understand what 'consensus' actually means :

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_%28computer_science%...

> A fundamental problem in distributed computing and multi-agent systems is to achieve overall system reliability in the presence of a number of faulty processes. This often requires processes to agree on some data value that is needed during computation. Examples of applications of consensus include whether to commit a transaction to a database (or, for example, committing blocks to a blockchain), agreeing on the identity of a leader, state machine replication, and atomic broadcasts. The real world applications include clock synchronization, PageRank, opinion formation, smart power grids, state estimation, control of UAVs, load balancing and others.

What does this mean if you are but an intrepid traveler amongst the erstwhile numpty-folk?

Nodes are agents in a multi-agent system with an agreed set of consensus rules (https://www.cryptocompare.com/coins/guides/how-does-a-bitcoi...), which they and they alone enforce, that ensure that the system functions. Transactions are propagated through the multi-agent network based upon the agreed consensus rules by nodes, which are agents in a multi-agent system. Miners retrieve valid transactions from any of these nodes, which are agents in a multi-agent system. They then order the transactions, and perform a hashing function on them until the hashing function returns a value that is suitable to the nodes, which are agents in a multi-agent system. They then pass the new block that they've created to the nodes, which are agents in a multi-agent system. The nodes, which are agents in a multi-agent system, then validate the block to ensure that each of the transactions within the block agree with the consensus rules. Then the node, which is an agent in a multi-agent system, extends the block-chain by attaching the new block to it. They then pass the new block, if it is valid, to other nodes, which are agents in a multi-agent system. Then each of these other nodes, which are agents in a multi-agent system, each do the same validation on every block.

Nodes accept incoming transactions and validate them. Miners don't. Nodes replicate transactions to other nodes. Miners don't. Miners take transactions from nodes, and order them in a block, and perform a hashing function on them (the only thing they do). Miners pass the new block to the node. The node validates the transactions in the block. Miners don't. The node validates the block. Miners don't. The node extends the blockchain. Miners don't. The node replicates the block to other nodes. Miners don't. It is the validation of the nodes, and their CPU's, that define and police consensus in bitcoin.

There is only one function that miners do. They take transactions, put them in a block, and hash them. As soon as a miner produces a block that nodes don't want, it is rejected. Miners work. Nodes validate. So nodes are the proof in proof-of-work.

Nodes accept the transactions, validate the transactions (using their CPU), replicate the transactions, maintain the mempools, validate the blocks (using their CPU), extend the blockchain (using their CPU), replicate the blocks, serve the blockchain, and store the blockchain. Nodes even define the PoW algorithm that miners have to employ. If you can't convince these node owners that are using their node on a day-to-day basis, to uninstall their node software and install your new node client, especially when that node client decreases their node security and decreases the network security, any change you have is going to go exactly nowhere.

So nodes maintain the protocol, not miners. It is thus. It has always been thus. If you can't convince all of those node owners running their node clients to uninstall one client and re-install another, any change you have to consensus is DOA.

See for yourself. Download it. (https://bitcoin.org/en/download) It's currently at 0.15.1

https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node

> A full node is a program that fully validates transactions and blocks. Almost all full nodes also help the network by accepting transactions and blocks from other full nodes, validating those transactions and blocks, and then relaying them to further full nodes.

Re: BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Starting with Bitcoin Cash

#139

It seems clear to me at this point that the cryptocurrency revolution is now bigger than Bitcoin itself. Years ago, I saw three long-term outcomes: Bitcoin being king and altcoins dying on the vine, Bitcoin being one of innumerable blockchains in use, and cryptocurrencies in general failing to gain adoption. I'm scratching the first outcome off the list, and my pen is hovering over the last outcome.

Many block chains being in use is going to wreck the value of bitcoin long term. People have this bizarre idea that cryptocurrency tokens are ‘rare’. They’re not. It’s trivial to make a new currency or fork an existing one.

Decentralized ones are rare. There are lots of centralized blockchains. The centralized ones, with their cheerleaders of pump and dump get rich quick schemes, are constantly trying to convince the unaware that they have the same security model as the decentralized ones. They don't.

Re: BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Starting with Bitcoin Cash

#140
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the work was undertaken in China, can you flesh out how the fact that nodes verify consensus resolves the China-coin problem? A 51% attack dictated by the chinese government would verify just fine.

You fundamentally do not understand how bitcoin works. So let's talk about nodes and consensus as defined in the whitepaper and implemented in nodes. Let's start with the bitcoin white paper ( https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf ) : > Satoshi from the Bitcoin white-paper chapter 12 'Conclusion' : The network is robust in its unstructured simplicity. _Nodes_ work all at once with little coordination. They do not need to b…

If your purpose was to explain how this solves a 51% attack from China, you have not yet succeeded.
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