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BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Starting with Bitcoin Cash

blog.bitpay.com

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Re: BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Starting with Bitcoin Cash

#121

Post by smichel17 »

Frogolocalypse wrote: post #38
r1ch wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who mines a block or where the nodes are etc is irrelevant, the ledger is open and public for both Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash. This isn't the place for wild anti-Chinese conspiracy theories.

Centralized chinese miners, centralized chinese nodes, and centralized chinese payment processor. The chinese government appreciates your compliance with its crypto implementation.

I appreciate that there's several different opinions across this thread, but this is the 3rd or so time you've posted this exact comment (and several others); it's verging on spam by now, to me.

Re: BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Starting with Bitcoin Cash

#122

Post by pishpash »

_red wrote: post #113
nadam wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see 3 scenarios right now: 1. Bitcoin + lighting network solves everything 2. Bitcoin's dominance ends and a more scalable payment-focused currency start to dominate (like Dash) 3. Bitcoin remains the main store of value, and people will convert some of their bitcoins to an altocin to do daily paymnt where there will be debates on the level of decentralization, but is designed to be extremely high (Visa level) tx/s…

>3. Bitcoin remains the main store of value I think this is probably right. And I would add 2 things (a) The size and the hash power of BTC give it a HUGE advantage. If you want "immutable proof that you own this specific decentralized block" then BTC is the only game in town. And that comes at a cost (hence high fees because of lots of electricity, computers, ASIC fabs, etc). (b) Secondly (and I realize this analogy…

If you owned a national currency, you would have the legal taxing authority and guns behind your papers. If you owned gold, you would have a shiny incorruptible metal in your hand to hand over for industrial if not artistic uses, in a pinch. Heck, even if you owned a potato, you could eat it -- and in dire circumstances that has a huge amount of value and maybe you can convince somebody to trade something else valuable.

If you "own" bitcoins, you have some numbers graffitied over people's hard drives. Yes they can't change it because electricity, and the numbers only get so big, and you have some different numbers that can be turned into the graffitied numbers by one particular algorithm that people like at the moment. Without transactions, these properties are completely arbitrary. I don't see how by themselves they can give anything approaching the necessities for a store of value. The truth is, without competitive transactional uses bitcoin has no fundamental value. Without fundamental value it can't be much of a store of value, since literally anything else without fundamental value can be equally good. You can store something like the goodwill of the network, as now, which isn't nothing, but it can be notoriously fickle.

Re: BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Starting with Bitcoin Cash

#123

Post by cortic »

empath75 wrote: post #105
LyndsySimon wrote: post #3

It seems clear to me at this point that the cryptocurrency revolution is now bigger than Bitcoin itself. Years ago, I saw three long-term outcomes: Bitcoin being king and altcoins dying on the vine, Bitcoin being one of innumerable blockchains in use, and cryptocurrencies in general failing to gain adoption. I'm scratching the first outcome off the list, and my pen is hovering over the last outcome.

Many block chains being in use is going to wreck the value of bitcoin long term. People have this bizarre idea that cryptocurrency tokens are ‘rare’. They’re not. It’s trivial to make a new currency or fork an existing one.

Business models like NiceHash (putting aside their security issues) have elevated the price of bitcoin by letting miners mine the most profitable currency and then immediately selling it for BTC. This moves the demand off the best alt currencies onto BTC; so the more block chains the merrier as long as this kinds of business model persists, and i think it will.

Also; "People have this bizarre idea that cryptocurrency tokens are ‘rare’." the belief in value is basically the foundation of all currency, why would cryptocurrency be any different?

Re: BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Starting with Bitcoin Cash

#124

Post by Frogolocalypse »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #119
Frogolocalypse wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eth nodes are a quarter of what they were nine months ago. Most people can't even sync a node anymore. None of this is a surprise. This is exactly the outcome expected with unrestrained blockchain expansion. Bitcoin is about decentralization. Every other altcoin, it would seem, is about trying to invent an inefficient paypal.

Bitcoin saw exactly the same drop in full nodes when light clients were first released. Ethereum still has over two times as many full nodes as Bitcoin. 11,415 Bitcoin nodes: https://bitnodes.earn.com/nodes/ 29,805 Ethereum full nodes: https://www.ethernodes.org/network/1 >>Most people can't even sync a node anymore. Totally unsubstantiated. >Bitcoin is about decentralization. There's more to decentralization than be…

> Ethereum still has over two times as many full nodes as Bitcoin.

Completely and utterly false. Bitcoin has 160,000+, and Eth has 29,000 (hey! isn't that special. 29k instead of 25k). Eth used to have 75,000 nine months ago.

http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/softwar...

You only want to count listening nodes, you're not going to get a full picture, are you? That's the great thing about bitcoin. Anyone can run a node. Anyone can be a peer in the peer-to-peer cash of bitcoin. Most of the peers in bitcoin are only interested in validating their own transactions. That's what makes it so secure. So many independent peers validating their own transactions.

You wouldn't understand.

> I'd rather Ethereum users poll multiple trusted third parties

Trustful blockchains. You should write a white-paper about your new tech.

Re: BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Starting with Bitcoin Cash

#125

Post by homakov »

modeless wrote: post #7

This was foreseeable when Bitcoin Core rejected Segwit2x. BitPay's business model simply fails unless the blockchain can scale much more than Segwit alone achieves, very soon.

Their business model failed from day one. You only pay in bitcoin until you realize how much gain you lost, then you hold instead.

Re: BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Starting with Bitcoin Cash

#126

Post by Frogolocalypse »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #118
ryebit wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Labelling everyone who does that "1 MB maximalists" is a little extreme, and is probably why people are irritated with BCH's marketing tactics. To view your statement in a different light.. maybe people don't care for it trying to succeed based on another coin's name, rather than trying to stand on it's own merits. Bitcoin Gold (for all it's problems) doesn't try to insist it's the real Bitcoin. And 90% of the coins…

Bitcoin Cash was a hard fork of Bitcoin to implement Bitcoin's original scaling plan, and original vision to be a "peer-to-peer electronic cash", and includes all account balances from before the hard fork. You may disagree that it's the real Bitcoin, but it's undoubtedly open to interpretation, and some of its advocates calling it that doesn't justify mislabeling it as bcash.

> and original vision

Where in the original white-paper is the emergency difficulty adjustment?

https://medium.com/@jimmysong/bitcoin-cash-difficulty-adjust...

> peer-to-peer

If you don't run a node, or you can't run a node because of resource requirements, you're not a peer.

Re: BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Starting with Bitcoin Cash

#127

Post by Frogolocalypse »

smichel17 wrote: post #121
Frogolocalypse wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Centralized chinese miners, centralized chinese nodes, and centralized chinese payment processor. The chinese government appreciates your compliance with its crypto implementation.

I appreciate that there's several different opinions across this thread, but this is the 3rd or so time you've posted this exact comment (and several others); it's verging on spam by now, to me.

If people don't understand that bcash is under regulatory capture of the chinese government, then they are not understanding how cryptocurrencies work.

Re: BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Starting with Bitcoin Cash

#128

Post by Frogolocalypse »

ericb wrote: post #114
Frogolocalypse wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bitcoin open source development team doesn't control the node i run. If you want centralized chinese government controlled crypto, there's bcash. If you were actually interested in just cheap fees, you'd use litecoin. It has been around for years. It even has segwit, unlike bcash.

Litecoin has the same small-block commitment. > If you want centralized chinese government controlled crypto, there's bcash. That's the pot calling the kettle black. Bitcoin core is China-coin . The economics of mining mean that there will always be centralization. Mining will centralize where there is free or cheap electricity (ahem, China). Mining will centralize on the hardware of the single manufacturer with the…

Nodes define and police consensus in bitcoin, not miners.

Re: BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Starting with Bitcoin Cash

#129

Post by CryptoPunk »

Frogolocalypse wrote: post #126
CryptoPunk wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin Cash was a hard fork of Bitcoin to implement Bitcoin's original scaling plan, and original vision to be a "peer-to-peer electronic cash", and includes all account balances from before the hard fork. You may disagree that it's the real Bitcoin, but it's undoubtedly open to interpretation, and some of its advocates calling it that doesn't justify mislabeling it as bcash.

> and original vision Where in the original white-paper is the emergency difficulty adjustment? https://medium.com/@jimmysong/bitcoin-cash-difficulty-adjust... > peer-to-peer If you don't run a node, or you can't run a node because of resource requirements, you're not a peer.

The specifics of the difficulty adjustment algorithm are not critical to the original vision, but way to deflect (from the original scaling plan) to a different point.

>>If you don't run a node, or you can't run a node because of resource requirements, you're not a peer.

We had this discussion before:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15883911

Re: BitPay Will Process Payments on Multiple Blockchains, Starting with Bitcoin Cash

#130

Post by warbiscuit »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #118
ryebit wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Labelling everyone who does that "1 MB maximalists" is a little extreme, and is probably why people are irritated with BCH's marketing tactics. To view your statement in a different light.. maybe people don't care for it trying to succeed based on another coin's name, rather than trying to stand on it's own merits. Bitcoin Gold (for all it's problems) doesn't try to insist it's the real Bitcoin. And 90% of the coins…

Bitcoin Cash was a hard fork of Bitcoin to implement Bitcoin's original scaling plan, and original vision to be a "peer-to-peer electronic cash", and includes all account balances from before the hard fork. You may disagree that it's the real Bitcoin, but it's undoubtedly open to interpretation, and some of its advocates calling it that doesn't justify mislabeling it as bcash.

> You may disagree that it's the real Bitcoin, but it's undoubtedly open to interpretation

It really isn't open to interpretation. And that is why people have been disparagingly calling it a different name; because the insistence that it's "the real Bitcoin" lessens it's credibility.

Why is Bitcoin Gold not the real Bitcoin? It's got a more ASIC-resistant proof of work, that's surely also in line with Satoshi's original vision? IMO, that's a much better reason, if adherence to the original whitepaper is what we're measuring by, since it reduces mining centralization. (Heck, if BCH adopted an ASCI-resistant PoW, I'll view in a new light!).

But you have to let things evolve. Software is rarely perfect out of the gate. Massive p2p software in particular is such a very new thing, there's going to be all kinds of bugs and dead ends. There may be ways to optimize and polish those dead ends to make them the best they can be, but it won't change the fundamentals of them.

And there's tons of levers and settings inside bitcoin. I don't think they're all set right (BCH's new difficulty algorithm seems like an interesting idea, in fact). But one thing that seems to be clear across the biggest coins... a worldwide distributed blockchain ledger just takes too darn long to handle p2p payments worldwide at a reasonable KiB/s. Even ETH, as fast as it is, was brought down by cryptokitties.

The coin that succeeds is going to have to solve that in some fashion. And running all the world's transactions through every node, upping the blocksize as needed, isn't going to solve the problem.

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