AlphaGo Teach – Find new and creative ways of playing Go • Hacker News Board

Re: AlphaGo Teach – Find new and creative ways of playing Go

#21

Post by smallnamespace » Fri, Dec 15, 2017, 5:31 PM UTC

hibikir wrote: post #19

Many comments seem to miss the real significance of this. This is not a joseki dictionary, and it doesn't play 50+ moves for you. This is AlphaGo Master's explanation of how it sees the opening. Humans have a very good understanding of endgames, and we might understand opening in a single corner, but when it comes to whole board knowledge, we are way worse than AlphaGo is. As it happens, AlphaGo disagrees with human…

When an AI is demonstrably so far beyond human ability that to even comprehend it requires the AI to help explain itself, you start to take Singularity futurists a bit more seriously.

Re: AlphaGo Teach – Find new and creative ways of playing Go

#22

Post by romaniv » Fri, Dec 15, 2017, 6:19 PM UTC

smallnamespace wrote: post #21

hibikir wrote: post #19

Many comments seem to miss the real significance of this. This is not a joseki dictionary, and it doesn't play 50+ moves for you. This is AlphaGo Master's explanation of how it sees the opening. Humans have a very good understanding of endgames, and we might understand opening in a single corner, but when it comes to whole board knowledge, we are way worse than AlphaGo is. As it happens, AlphaGo disagrees with human…

When an AI is demonstrably so far beyond human ability that to even comprehend it requires the AI to help explain itself, you start to take Singularity futurists a bit more seriously.

This doesn't make sense. Computers do stuff that people don't "comprehend" all the time. In fact, in the past, one of the fundamental appeals and drives behind AI was to make systems that could explain themselves, not requiring complex analysis and experiments to understand what's going on. (And vice vera, systems that could understand humans without programming.)

Re: AlphaGo Teach – Find new and creative ways of playing Go

#23

Post by dmoy » Fri, Dec 15, 2017, 7:35 PM UTC

make3 wrote: post #9

dmoy wrote: post #2

Oh this is cool, is it basically giving you a view of what alphago thinks the win % is for a given board state while you're playing? With undo that's awesome.

no, it's a very small precomputed tree of moves. you can only click on an increasingly small subset of tiles after each move

Damn :( Thanks for clarifying though

Re: AlphaGo Teach – Find new and creative ways of playing Go

#24

Post by aloisamae » Fri, Dec 15, 2017, 9:14 PM UTC

ddebernardy wrote: post #17

It would be sweet to play a whole game against AlphaGo at some point. Is anyone aware of when we'll be able to do that?

There's a project called Leela Zero on Guthub which appears to be Alpha Zero without it's neural network weights. I doubt it'll get the proper weights any time soon though.

Re: AlphaGo Teach – Find new and creative ways of playing Go

#25

Post by smallnamespace » Fri, Dec 15, 2017, 9:32 PM UTC

romaniv wrote: post #22

smallnamespace wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When an AI is demonstrably so far beyond human ability that to even comprehend it requires the AI to help explain itself, you start to take Singularity futurists a bit more seriously.

This doesn't make sense. Computers do stuff that people don't "comprehend" all the time. In fact, in the past, one of the fundamental appeals and drives behind AI was to make systems that could explain themselves, not requiring complex analysis and experiments to understand what's going on. (And vice vera, systems that could understand humans without programming.)

> make systems that could explain themselves

Yes, but currently the systems we are building have no sense of will or agency.

If we succeed in building systems that do have more complex objectives, then how can we be sure that the human and machine's objectives are aligned? How can you be sure the system is explaining itself to you in an honest way?

Note that there were two different goals in building computers and software: 1) building things that have full control over and 2) building things that are more and more clever and useful.

In the limit, those two goals can come into sharp conflict.