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People Don't Get the Link Between Meat Consumption and Climate Change (2016)

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: People Don't Get the Link Between Meat Consumption and Climate Change (2016)

#101

Post by TheCoelacanth »

cagenut wrote: post #50

Meat is a big one, but its the #3 - #5ish big one depending on how you look at things (at an individual westerner vs. other lenses). Roughly in order it goes - having more kids than adults (population growth) - living in a single-family detached home (land use sprawl + hvac inefficiency) - owning a car - flying - eating red meat (particularly beef & lamb) So yes by all means, eat less red meat, but after you've moved…

> having more kids than adults (population growth)

Good news on that point is that the number of children in the world already peaked several years ago. The continuing population growth is now being driven solely by life expectancy increases. Growth in lifespans in developed countries seems to be running out of steam, so once developing countries have caught up we would expect population growth to stop fairly soon afterwards.

Re: People Don't Get the Link Between Meat Consumption and Climate Change (2016)

#102

Post by Nadya »

erispoe wrote: post #75
DiabloD3 wrote: post #65

This is a useless article with a serious vegan bent. Humans cannot survive as vegans, and suggesting so is a pretty backwards thing given that these are basic scientific facts; so called "healthy vegans" often are taking supplements that they believe are vegan when they are in fact animal-sourced, or they are using algae-based products that are often highly contaminated as a nature of their production. Literally, the…

Evolution doesn't have a purpose. Just because you can eat meat doesn't mean you have to, or that you should. You can have a meat-free, protein-heavy diet. Most of meat products are so processed that they are indistinguishable from plant-based substitutes anyway. If you try an Impossible Burger without knowing it's plant-based, you wouldn't notice it's not meat. Beside, are you seriously denying anthropic climate cha…

>If you try an Impossible Burger without knowing it's plant-based, you wouldn't notice it's not meat.

Bullshit. My mother has tried to pass that product as a hamburger and in a single bite I spat it out and asked her what the hell was wrong with the burger - it has a very un-burger-like aftertaste.

I'm 99% sure people who think the "tastes like meat!" replacements taste like meat have damaged or weak taste buds and literally don't know what meat actually tastes like to many people. Like how a red/green color-blind person wouldn't know what red/green actually look like for most people.

Re: People Don't Get the Link Between Meat Consumption and Climate Change (2016)

#103

Post by TheCoelacanth »

emodendroket wrote: post #87
cagenut wrote: post #50

Meat is a big one, but its the #3 - #5ish big one depending on how you look at things (at an individual westerner vs. other lenses). Roughly in order it goes - having more kids than adults (population growth) - living in a single-family detached home (land use sprawl + hvac inefficiency) - owning a car - flying - eating red meat (particularly beef & lamb) So yes by all means, eat less red meat, but after you've moved…

Oh, good news, you can just ditch the car and walk several miles to everywhere you need to go. Again, telling people to just start living like they're Benedictine monks is not a serious solution to the problem.

With better land use patterns you wouldn't need to walk that far. I can walk to dozens of restaurants without going more than half a mile.

Even single family house neighborhoods can have a decent selection of restaurants and grocery stores within a short walking distance if we get rid of the stupid zoning rules that strictly segregate residential and commercial uses.

Re: People Don't Get the Link Between Meat Consumption and Climate Change (2016)

#104

Post by ac29 »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #65

This is a useless article with a serious vegan bent. Humans cannot survive as vegans, and suggesting so is a pretty backwards thing given that these are basic scientific facts; so called "healthy vegans" often are taking supplements that they believe are vegan when they are in fact animal-sourced, or they are using algae-based products that are often highly contaminated as a nature of their production. Literally, the…

> Humans cannot survive as vegans

Cite your claims. There are plenty of vegans who are very much alive, and most (but not all) research sugests that well planned vegan diets can be healthy for all life stages.

The most important deficiency in a vegan diet is vitamin B12, but that cannot be produced by any animals (or plants) [0]. Commerically the majority of it is made via bacterial fermentation.

[0] http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/vitamins/vitamin-B12

Re: People Don't Get the Link Between Meat Consumption and Climate Change (2016)

#105

Post by reustle »

falcolas wrote: post #78
tfolbrecht wrote: post #62

People still don't get that haphazard false equivalences weaken trust in media. I live in the rural south. The cows in my lumpy unfarmable backyard eat grass. How is it a harmful practice? I can't convert grass to a complete protein source. Any link between wild game and climate change? Fishing? Articles like this are alienating to the average person. Why not use this opportunity push more ethical options? Grass fed…

Rural north-west here, same issue. I get it, there are some cattle ranches which would turn my stomach, but the average ranch around here is hundreds of acres of unfarmable (or unprofitable to farm) land dedicated to a few hundred head of cattle (i.e. you don't see the cattle most of the time). They're oddly beautiful spaces to look upon, compared to the mechanical oddity (circular fields in a square plots) that is t…

I'm not educated on the statistics, but how much of the total meat consumed (let's say beef in the US) comes from the big bad farms? Is it possible to convert over to only healthier grass pastures?

I'm a meat eater who is happy to pay more and cut down, just wondering how feasible it is.

Re: People Don't Get the Link Between Meat Consumption and Climate Change (2016)

#106

Post by emodendroket »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #103
emodendroket wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, good news, you can just ditch the car and walk several miles to everywhere you need to go. Again, telling people to just start living like they're Benedictine monks is not a serious solution to the problem.

With better land use patterns you wouldn't need to walk that far. I can walk to dozens of restaurants without going more than half a mile. Even single family house neighborhoods can have a decent selection of restaurants and grocery stores within a short walking distance if we get rid of the stupid zoning rules that strictly segregate residential and commercial uses.

Even if that's what the doctor ordered, so to speak, it's hardly a matter of individual initiative.

Re: People Don't Get the Link Between Meat Consumption and Climate Change (2016)

#107

Post by dwaltrip »

peg_leg wrote: post #30

Meat is cheap. AND it's not up to individuals to make the broad policy changes needed to affect climate change. That's done by governments. People will follow suit. If there's a tax on meat, less meat will be eaten. To put the onus on individuals to make policy decisions is preposterous.

Grassroots movements and citizen created advocacy orgs (non-profits, etc) can be a big part of what often causes government to make policy changes.

But you are right that the primary focus should be on facilitating effective policy change for such issues.

I do think there is some value in individual change as an agent of broader cultural change, but this is much harder to assess. Part of my reasoning is that policy change will likely fail without some corresponding cultural change as well. I'd like to learn more about this complex dynamic though...

In the end, policy change is definitely necessary to successfully defense against large, negative externalities.

Re: People Don't Get the Link Between Meat Consumption and Climate Change (2016)

#108

Post by dwaltrip »

hycaria wrote: post #43
gcatalfamo wrote: post #9

What the other people don't get is that going vegan/vegetarian is NOT the correct answer.

Absolutely, the only stronger decision one can take is having one child less. But as this is not considered by most, limiting meat to one or two meals a week would already be a good step forward

I think taxing carbon output and passing policies to more quickly facilitate the switch to renewable energy would be more effective.

This wouldn't rely on individuals making large changes to their life all on their own.

Re: People Don't Get the Link Between Meat Consumption and Climate Change (2016)

#109

Post by mythrwy »

peg_leg wrote: post #42
mythrwy wrote: post #22

People don't believe the link between meat consumption and climate change. It seems like one leftist agenda being used to push another leftist agenda and pretty much anyone who isn't down with leftist agendas tunes right out as this is just too far fetched to even consider. (Not a heavy meat eater myself but not for planet saving reasons. I just don't like a lot of meat sitting in my stomach. Beans and whole grains a…

Science is not a leftist agenda.

Oh I'm not suggesting it is. Just stating what I think people believe.

Re: People Don't Get the Link Between Meat Consumption and Climate Change (2016)

#110

Post by newscracker »

ajeet_dhaliwal wrote: post #45
kelchm wrote: post #11

Actually, I think you'll find that people just really like the way meat tastes.

This is it. I'm in agreement with Anthony Bourdain here about vegetarian food in most places. If I lived in India, in particular Punjab it would be far easier to be a vegetarian because stuff actually tastes great (better than meat!) but elsewhere it's hard. Being half decent isn't good enough, the vegetarian food has to taste as good as or better than meat. The worst is places where the idea of a vegetarian meal is…

In this context, dairy consumption is also linked to climate change (just like meat is), because it’s the same animals (cattle) who are bred and raised to produce dairy (excreting methane and CO2) and then slaughtered in a fraction of their lifespan when their milk production drops.

If you want to lower your carbon footprint below that of a vegetarian, going vegan is one way to do it.

P.S.: Watch the documentary “Cowspiracy”.

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