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Singapore's electric car-sharing program hits the road

reuters.com

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Re: Singapore's electric car-sharing program hits the road

#41

Post by vadimberman »

kccqzy wrote: post #36
vadimberman wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know the metrics for European countries but my anecdotal experience in Japan is that the Singapore system is not even worthy of discussion. That's strange, while I liked the Tokyo JR system, I think Singapore's overcrowding is better managed. No people pushing passengers into trains. I know it was considered an issue and every single Singaporean complains about it. Which is really, really puzzling. You guys…

Singaporeans aren’t complaining because their trains are worse compared to the ones in New York. They are complaining because the trains are worse compared with fifteen years ago. Fifteen years ago it was unthinkable that two of the busiest lines would simultaneously go down for hours during rush hour, but that happened in July 2015. The NS/EW line trains were so incompetently maintained that reliability has been goi…

Thanks for the explanation.

So on one day, 2 years ago, after 15 years of perfect order, two lines went down.

I understand what you're saying about the standards going down and it's good that the Singaporeans are so demanding toward the authorities.

Still, it is not regarded an extinction-level event in most places.

In Melbourne (Australia), for instance, only 87% of the trains are required to arrive within 5 minutes of the schedule. That is, over every 10th train can be late and it's OK with everybody. See here: https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/about-ptv/victorias-public-transp... The average time between trains is 10-15 minutes, up to 20 in off-peak hours. (For trams and buses, the standards are more lax, obviously.) This is normal; Melbourne transportation is regarded as generally of decent quality worldwide and yes, CBD-bound Melbourne commuters generally use public transport, too.

Re: Singapore's electric car-sharing program hits the road

#42

Post by vadimberman »

robjan wrote: post #40
vadimberman wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did you hear what are they complaining about? Yep. > There is a lot of thing to complain. Nope. Not in comparison with the rest of the world. > MRT issues are happening very often, can't remember any other country with such amount of MRT problems. Have you ever ventured outside of Singapore, I wonder? Are you even aware that the 3-5 minute interval between trains, air conditioning, seamless connections with other t…

You are comparing a relatively new subway system with some quite old ones. A more apples to apples comparison would be with the Hong Kong MTR or the Taipei MRT, or even some of the Mass Transit Railways in Tier 1 cities in China.

I am comparing the user experience.

Borrowing a tired car analogy, I see people crying foul that their Porsche sucks and that their neighbour's Bentley is better while most of the world drives rusty bicycles.

Re: Singapore's electric car-sharing program hits the road

#43

Post by brisance »

hboon wrote: post #28
vadimberman wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know the metrics for European countries but my anecdotal experience in Japan is that the Singapore system is not even worthy of discussion. That's strange, while I liked the Tokyo JR system, I think Singapore's overcrowding is better managed. No people pushing passengers into trains. I know it was considered an issue and every single Singaporean complains about it. Which is really, really puzzling. You guys…

If you compare Singapore's MRT system to similar systems in every city in the world, it will rank among the top. But it's a matter of expectation. But if you include the massive hype and expectations set over the years — and the performance of the MRT system for the first 10 years — the current breakdowns, delays and obvious negligence in maintenance and how they are currently handled is what makes people here compla…

I'm not sure the MRT would be rated at the top. HK's MTR and Japan's rail operators handle higher volumes so if we take that into account it's more likely they'll come out ahead. But I agree that there is anger because lowering our standards is not in our national consciousness since everyone has been brainwashed to expect only the best from Singaporean Exceptionalism™.

Re: Singapore's electric car-sharing program hits the road

#44

Post by emmanuel_1234 »

philliphaydon wrote: post #23
emmanuel_1234 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>* the public transport is probably one of the best all over the world (even though the locals keep complaining), with completely driverless trains and accuracy that would make the Germans and the Swiss cry in envy. Try Hong Kong trains. A notch better, serving a much higher density population. I also recently moved to Singapore and must admit I'm a bit disappointed with the low frequency, short trains that Singapore…

> I'm a bit disappointed with the low frequency, short trains that Singapore deployed. Could you explain this a bit more please? I've lived here for 6 years now, been to Japan and Taiwan, consider Taiwan the best of all 3, but cannot compare to Hong Kong as I've never been there. Taiwan trains are a bit slower than SG, but they are much smoother, where in SG sometimes the older lines (green / red) which still have dr…

Hong Kong trains (and consequently, platforms) are a lot longer, meaning a train can fit a lot more people. They also run more frequently, especially during traffic hour. Mind you, Hong Kong trains also gets full doing rush hour (it's not rare to have to wait a train or two to get in, meaning 5 minutes top).

What annoys me in Singapore, especially with the East West line, is that there are so many people in the morning, yet the trains are tiny and run every 4 or 5 minutes only. You actually have to fight your way to get in and squeeze. I know the Downtown line doesn't seem to suffer as much, as there seem to be a lot less traffic (I assume the wealthier people who live along this line take their car?).

Hong Kong is bound to fail at some point though. They can't add more trains during rush hour, it's too late to make the station and trains longer, and some station are at saturation already. One of them, Admiralty, offers to commute on the same platform (i.e.: exit the train, walk straight to meet your correspondence). There are so many people that you sometimes hardly can exit the train, as the platform is too packed by people trying to get to the other train.

The density of population in Hong Kong (for the actually populated area, not the land as a whole) is staggering though, in my experience / feeling, a lot higher than Singapore or Tokyo/Yokohama.

Re: Singapore's electric car-sharing program hits the road

#45

Post by ValentineC »

vadimberman wrote: post #41
kccqzy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Singaporeans aren’t complaining because their trains are worse compared to the ones in New York. They are complaining because the trains are worse compared with fifteen years ago. Fifteen years ago it was unthinkable that two of the busiest lines would simultaneously go down for hours during rush hour, but that happened in July 2015. The NS/EW line trains were so incompetently maintained that reliability has been goi…

Thanks for the explanation. So on one day, 2 years ago, after 15 years of perfect order, two lines went down. I understand what you're saying about the standards going down and it's good that the Singaporeans are so demanding toward the authorities. Still, it is not regarded an extinction-level event in most places. In Melbourne (Australia), for instance, only 87% of the trains are required to arrive within 5 minutes…

> So on one day, 2 years ago, after 15 years of perfect order, two lines went down.

The Singapore train system has been around for 30 years, but that's not the point.

It hasn't been 15 years of perfect order — my experience for the past year has been that I cannot rely on the train system to reach a destination on time, nor can I rely on announcements, since the government mandates that only delays above 10 minutes need to be announced. [1] On the ground, I have rolled my eyes at the many delays that go by unannounced, presumably because they're only "9:59 minutes" long.

> Still, it is not regarded an extinction-level event in most places.

It's really bad in Singapore because the train system is the only thing that can cope with the population. This is the sight at bus stops when a small section of _one_ line was disrupted for just _two_ hours: http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/commuters-hit-with-2-h...

Just three days ago, our newest line (which is between 1 to 4 years old) was hit by delays [2].

For a lot of Singaporeans, the problem isn't with not being able to use the trains — it's with:

1) the companies not being transparent and forging maintenance records [3];

2) being unable to plan alternative routes because of the lack of announcements; and

3) a Minister of Transport who shifts blame to everything and everyone but himself [4].

--

[1] http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/rail-operato...

[2] https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/delays-hit-do...

[3] http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/how-systemic...

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaw_Boon_Wan#Minister_for_Tra...

Re: Singapore's electric car-sharing program hits the road

#46

Post by vadimberman »

ValentineC wrote: post #45
vadimberman wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the explanation. So on one day, 2 years ago, after 15 years of perfect order, two lines went down. I understand what you're saying about the standards going down and it's good that the Singaporeans are so demanding toward the authorities. Still, it is not regarded an extinction-level event in most places. In Melbourne (Australia), for instance, only 87% of the trains are required to arrive within 5 minutes…

> So on one day, 2 years ago, after 15 years of perfect order, two lines went down. The Singapore train system has been around for 30 years, but that's not the point. It hasn't been 15 years of perfect order — my experience for the past year has been that I cannot rely on the train system to reach a destination on time, nor can I rely on announcements, since the government mandates that only delays above 10 minutes n…

I appreciate the wealth of info (really interesting), but really, if a delay of 10 minutes within a span of half an hour makes national news, it's head and shoulders above the rest.

BTW, the bus picture: I went to Switzerland in 2015; even though it was only a week-long visit, my wife and I encountered a train cancelation because of some kind of an issue with the tracks; everyone was shepherded to the buses in not a very orderly fashion, which looked like your picture. To our question whether it was an extraordinary event, the other commuters smiled and said, nah, happens once in a while.

Don't get me wrong - I think it's a good thing, but IMO you guys have very high standards.

Re: Singapore's electric car-sharing program hits the road

#47

Post by ValentineC »

choonway wrote: post #34

A Singaporean here. The real revolution in transport happening here is NOT electric cars, NOT autonomous cars, NOT Uber/Grab, NOT the bike sharing scourge the likes of ofo. It is the e-scooters that has been zipping around the walkways and highways recently. Some heroics... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn03CUt4fm4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVDFcnMKNRM

Just thought I'd highlight that the first video is 29 seconds long, but the first 13 seconds is a stitched-on advertisement.

Re: Singapore's electric car-sharing program hits the road

#48

Post by gitah »

choonway wrote: post #34

A Singaporean here. The real revolution in transport happening here is NOT electric cars, NOT autonomous cars, NOT Uber/Grab, NOT the bike sharing scourge the likes of ofo. It is the e-scooters that has been zipping around the walkways and highways recently. Some heroics... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn03CUt4fm4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVDFcnMKNRM

Combine the e-scooter with the bike sharing concept and you'll have the next big revolution.
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